Brake problems again.

[1958trebor]

Hi all, my tale of woe continues with the uprated brakes on my 1954 saloon. Briefly, I have had a poor handbrake on the nearside despite renewing everything. It is still at the maximum tightness on the cable with no more slack and yet only just holds the car. Now another problem has arisen in that I have replaced the front slave cylinders, rear O/S cylinder and renewed the rear brake shoes and fitted new drums. Now the P.O.S has started to have a soft pedal the first time the brakes are applied then a firm pedal after that. Leave it 30 seconds and the same thing happens again. It's as if there is air in the system but I have bled and bled it and it makes no difference. It has been suggested that the master cylinder is on the way out or there is a problem with a flexi. Surely that would happen every time though? I have had this car on and off for 30 years and have never reached this point before when I would be glad to see the back of it. 8" on the front 7" on the rear, Copper pipes throughout, no Servo. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. Thanks, Rob.

[mogbob]

Rob
If the handbrake cables are original ( now 64 years old ) it could well be that they stretched and your ability to
"take up the slack " by adjustment , has reached the end of the line.
I am assuming that once the new kit was installed on the rear wheels , you loosened the hand brake cable, adjusted the shoes first nearside and offside and then adjusted the handbrake last of all ?
Have you visually inspected the flexi hoses , by bending them on a tight bend to look for perishing rubber ? or
are they metal weave reinforced flexis.

If they are perished internally they don't always behave identically every time they are applied. Soft / hard application , frequent or infrequent permutations produce different results. The same applies to the master cylinder. The Forum opinion seems to be replace the whole thing rather than attempting an overhaul with new seals. The " gamble " is knowing when it is all going to " let go " and stop the fluid circulating all together !

In your shoes I'd try getting rid of the air in the system first - search brake bleeding on the Forum - for alternative methods , i.e. pressure bleeding , vacuum / suction bleeding, wedging the brake pedal fully down
overnight , etc. With no more air bubbles , if the pedal still sinks , it could be Master cylinder / flexi pipes
Second I'd do the condition of the flexis check , replacing if necessary.
Last , I'd replace the cables if there is no other adjustment left open to you.

Penny pinching / saving and the braking system should not be mentioned in the same sentence in my books.
Good luck with it , you'll have piece of mind once it's done and you can enjoy the car again.
Bob

[shoebone]

You may be not getting full contact with the shoe against the drum, they may bed in relatively quickly if your lucky, but I would be tempted to remove the drum, you should see how much shoe is contacting the drum ..... as for bleeding .... language is much less colorful when using a vacuum pump, still a messy business but better results. Good luck

[1958trebor]

Hi all, thanks for the advice. Suffice it to say that I took the car to its MOT on Saturday and it failed again! Same thing, no braking effort on N/S rear. New drums, shoes, springs, flexi's Copper brake pipes and a handbrake cable and still, the same problem.
I was absolutely p*ssed off. I had spent all week checking and re-checking, bleeding and re-bleeding and still, when it came to the test.........nothing.
I took it home and checked the rear nearside brake for the umpteenth time. I then noticed the adjuster was loose, so tightened it up. I was sure It had been OK on Friday night.
This time I asked my wife to operate the brake about a dozen times.
There it was.
The adjuster, being 64 years old had worn out. It clicked up but when the brakes operated, unwound itself. Change adjuster, obtain MOT. Who would have thought? Morris Minors still have the capacity to surprise.

[mogbob]

Every DIY mechanic needs an understanding wife /partner to help out " when times are tough " !!
Glad you cracked it.
I think the purchase of a box of chocolates / bunch of flowers is in order ….so next time you have an issue !
When I get to the stage of not thinking straight , my wife goes through a list of suggestions now ( having had to
listen to my ramblings on all the things I've checked and doubled checked for years ! ). Her strike rate is impoving.
Well done
Bob

[myoldjalopy]

"The adjuster, being 64 years old had worn out. It clicked up but when the brakes operated, unwound itself. Change adjuster, obtain MOT. Who would have thought?"
Indeed. At least it was a nice, easy fix after all that horrible frustration. We like easy fixes!