Engine bust, what replacement

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Carty
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Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Carty »

I am having my '64 1098 4 door restored, but it seems that i dropped a clanger 17 years ago when putting it in my mates barn by not draining the water. The restorer (not me) has tried the usual tricks to get it moving, but no go, its stuck solid. My question is, what do I replace it with. I'm thinking 1275. Could someone advise me if
A- This is a straight forward modification, i.e. what other things need to be done
B- Is a A plus 1275 the one i need.
Could anyone recommend a source for one.
Sorry to ask such basic questions, but as I say the work by and large is being done by someone else.
Thanks for any advise
philthehill
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by philthehill »

Fitting the MG Midget/Sprite 1275cc engine is a straight forward exercise with little modification required.

Fitting the 1275cc Marina or 1275cc 'A' Plus engine whilst doable is not straight forward and requires a new modified flywheel (ESM), new rear engine plate (ESM) and a good Minor 948/1098cc front engine plate.

Both Midget/Marina engines for sale can be found on 'e' bay but the Midget is the more expensive but Marina engines are catching up. Expect to pay £600 - £800 for the Midget engine and around £400 plus for a Marina engine and £300 for the Marina conversion parts.

The easiest and cheapest way to get back up and running is to fit a good S/H 1098cc engine - no modifications required. 1098cc engines readily available on 'e' bay.

Good luck and if more advice is required please come back on here.

Phil

Carty
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Carty »

Hi Phil. Many thanks for your advice. Would a 1275 provide much more power than the 1098?
philthehill
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by philthehill »

The 1275cc engine whether Midget/Sprite or Marina/Ital will provide a good increase in power and torque.

Carty
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Carty »

Hi Once again,
Would the Midget just drop in. Thats to say, would the pump etc all just transfer over. Sorry to be so thick, as I said earlier, the work is being done by someone else. Would it create much more work for them?
It it it a bit tricky, I'm thinking of just getting a recon one from one the the suppliers on an exchange basis.
Thanks for your help
philthehill
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by philthehill »

The 1275cc Midget/Sprite engine will just drop in.
Fit a blanking plate to the mechanical fuel pump aperture and use the Minor SU electric pump.
The 1275cc exhaust manifold is not really suitable as the exit pipe faces forward and will not mate with the Minor exhaust pipe.
Use a Marina inlet/exhaust manifold with a 1.5" SU carb
Marina manifold 1.jpg
Marina manifold 1.jpg (118.55 KiB) Viewed 2816 times
Use the ESM Marina/Minor conversion pipe.
The Midget/Sprite clutch is hydraulically operated which requires the Midget release bearing to be fitted to the 1098cc box..
The hydraulic slave cylinder operating rod needs to be modified so as to join with the Minor release rod, an easy job if using a suitable threaded sleeve..
The relay rod needs to be modified (see picture below)if the foot pedal pressure is to be kept near to that of the Minor..
img150.jpg
img150.jpg (133.63 KiB) Viewed 2816 times

Declan_Burns
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Declan_Burns »

Phil,
When I finally got out of hospital in late August after a four month stay and 14 operations on my left leg, I found the standard Minor clutch far too heavy for the bad leg. The first thing I did was fit the extended clutch relay shaft to the 1098 together with my rose jointed linkage and the difference is absolutely amazing. I would highly recommend the extended relay shaft especially for anybody with leg problems. That now means I won't be forced to sell the car.
Regards
Declan
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Regards
Declan
Mark Wilson
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Mark Wilson »

Minor correction to Phil's excellent advice. The Midget 1275 didn't have a mechanical fuel pump, although the A plus did have.

The actual power increase will depend on a lot of factors, but for the Midget would go (nominally) from 48bhp to 65bhp, ie a 26% increase. That would make improved braking essential, so budget for disk brakes or 9" Wolseley or Riley drums.

I don't think the regular suppliers will exchange a 1098 for a 1275, if that is what you mean. Charles Ware, to pluck an example off the internet, require a surcharge of £670 on top off the £1062 for a recon 1275 until you provide a reconditionable 1275 unit in exchange.

Mark
myoldjalopy
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by myoldjalopy »

If it were me, I'd just get a recon 1098, trading in the old one. That way its a completely straight swap - no messing about with clutch linkages, manifolds, carbs, uprated brakes etc. And cheaper........ 8)
ManyMinors
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by ManyMinors »

And a minor correction to Mark's otherwise excellent message: Actually, a power increase from 48 to 65bhp is more like a 35% increase - so fairly substantial - provided the MG distributor, carburation etc are also used. I agree with Mark that you would have to either pay the surcharge or provide an old unit 1275 engine in exchange and that even a worn out Midget 1275 engine costs money these days.
What do you want to use the car for? Did you find the standard engine didn't provide sufficient power before? You will spend a good deal of money changing to a 1275 engine which might not be worthwhile depending on what you propose using the car for. Certainly my standard 1098cc Minor is perfectly capable of everyday use, holidays etc and while it is far from ideal on the motorway, fitting a 1275cc engine wouldn't frankly make it any more relaxing/comfortable/quieter for long journeys in any case.
Mark Wilson
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Mark Wilson »

Oops - 35% indeed! Schoolboy error of taking the increase as a percentage of the increased figure :oops:
philthehill
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by philthehill »

Mark
Regarding the fuel pump apature:-

I am aware that the 1275cc MG Midget/Sprite have a SU electric fuel pump located at the rear of the car

That said - 1275cc MG Midget/Sprite blocks with the engine number prefix 12V have the mechanical fuel pump aperture.

See link for details:-
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=V3S ... es&f=false

Phil

Carty
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Carty »

Wow, thanks everyone for such top info.
I’m going to go for the cheap / simple option of recon replacement. Apart from the usual Charlie’s / Bull Etc could anyone recommend any engine recon company’s?
Cheers 👍
Carty
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Carty »

Wow, thanks everyone for such top info.
I’m going to go for the cheap / simple option of recon replacement. Apart from the usual Charlie’s / Bull Etc could anyone recommend any engine recon company’s?
Cheers 👍
Carty
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Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:44 pm
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Carty »

Wow, thanks everyone for such top info.
I’m going to go for the cheap / simple option of recon replacement. Apart from the usual Charlie’s / Bull Etc could anyone recommend any engine recon company’s?
Cheers 👍
myoldjalopy
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by myoldjalopy »

Whilst you may find someone who would overhaul your existing engine (and maintain the car's originality in that respect), I think it would likely be more expensive than trading it in for a re-conditioned one from the usual suppliers. At least that way the value of your old engine is set against the refurbishment costs. Plus you get your car back on the road quicker! 8)
Chipper
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Chipper »

Have you tried the old trick of pouring diesel or similar penetrating oil down the spark plug holes and letting it sit for a few days, which sometimes works to free off a seized engine?
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)
pgp001
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by pgp001 »

Another trick is to fill the water passages in the block with boiling water, this will possibly help to get things moving again.
If it was me, I would still want to strip it down and check everything was OK even if you do get it to turn over again just for peace of mind.

Depending on what you find, you might still be better off swapping it for a recon unit with a guarantee, especially if paying someone else to do the work.

Phil
philthehill
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by philthehill »

If the engine is seized I very much doubt that the engine would be welcome as an exchange unit.
Most require a rebuildable core unit.
Before you do anything check with your chosen engine supplier/reconditioning company as to what is an acceptable exchange unit.
It may be cheaper in the long run to purchase a rebuildable core unit (engine) off 'e' bay and put that in as an exchange unit.

Carty
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Re: Engine bust, what replacement

Post by Carty »

Once again thanks for the replies. We’ve poured petrol down the spark plug holes, not sure about boiling water in the hose areas. I was going to part ex, but as was said above, that may not be possible. Any recommendations for engines?
Last edited by Carty on Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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