Traveller Tuning

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Kittyhawk
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Traveller Tuning

Postby Kittyhawk » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:05 pm

Having read Vizard and researched on here, I have decided that Doris the Traveller could do with a bit more power. She is a 1968 1098cc. I have got a 12G940 head in nice condition and an HS4 which I have refurbished. The head has not been skimmed and has 2.75" thickness. I think it is an A+, as there is no bypass outlet and the heater tap outlet was blanked off. I have machined out the latter. The inlet valves are 33mm and have the triple groove collets. There appears to be sufficient valve to head clearance, but I will check carefully when it is on the block.I have shimmed the rockers to the correct alignment with the valves.
Regarding the bypass, I have obtained a sandwich plate for the thermostat housing, but would welcome any advice on plumbing, as to connect it to the bypass outlet on the water pump would require a really tight bend and I wondered if there are alternative ways of doing it. I have read all the various conflicting posts on drilling holes in the thermostat and remain confused. I have a K&N air filter for the HS4. I am trying to decide on manifolds. I can't afford a full replacement exhaust system at present, so the choice appears to be a heated alloy inlet manifold with a cut down Minor exhaust manifold or the Marina 12G3538 combined inlet exhaust. The latter seem in short supply second hand, but I have found a couple of Mini combined ones (12G787) which appear to be the same.
I will need to find or make a bracket for the end of the throttle cable outer, as all the abutment plates I have seen are for a carb with the float chamber on the right and the throttle linkage on the left, as you look toward the engine and mine is the other way round. Also I don't need the long return spring, as my HS4 has a coiled return spring concentric with the throttle butterfly spindle.

The head is now painted in BMC green..
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philthehill
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby philthehill » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:33 pm

Welcome to the world of 'A' Series tuning.
As regards pluming - I personally would not fit the sandwich plate
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I would drill some holes in the rim of the thermostat and just use the standard Minor thermostat housing.
The holes in the thermostat allow some water to circulate through the engine whilst the engine is warming up. The thermostat must be retained to push water to the back of the head otherwise you may well get localised hotspots at the rear of the head (and or at the front of the head).
Fit a heater tap at the rear of the head - run a heater pipe to the heater - run a pipe from the heater to the inlet manifold and then onto the bottom hose or direct from the heater to the bottom hose.
Having the above allows coolant to circulate as it should do even though there is no bypass facility.

Phil


Declan_Burns
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby Declan_Burns » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:02 am

In addition to Phil's recommendations, DMG sell a thermostat cover to overcome the top hose alignment problem. It is pricey @ £29.40 and their website is a nightmare-Part 12M220.
http://www.jagspares.co.uk/Morris/partd ... tno=12M220
An early MGB thermostat cover is also useable or some use a cannibalized Minor bottom hose.

Regarding the heater tap I would recommend using one of the inline heater taps from T7 design. I fitted one to my MG TD last week and am very pleased with it. The movement is feather light.
https://www.t7design.co.uk/products/acc ... m-1-2.html
Be careful when ordering as the bracket is mirrored on the push to close version.
They are actually a French made (if we can be sure nowadays :roll: ) valve by a company called Siroco.
Regards
Declan
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Regards
Declan

panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:05 pm

If it's a cone type K&N I personally wouldn't use it. I've done pretty much the same mods as you and did fit a K&N cone but it was very noisy. Instead i used a K&N element in a Mini air box with a few holes bored around the outside, no difference in performance and a lot quieter. In fact I fitted a K&N element inside the original - no holes air box on my tuned 1275 Mini Cooper and found no difference between that and the cone type - except for the noise.
Keith Calver did an experiment on an 850 Mini years ago. He compared the same car on a dyno using the standard filter/air box set up against a cone K&N and a drilled air box, the drilled air box beat the K&N by a couple of HP and the standard set up was albost the same as the K&N.
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panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:23 pm

The manifolds shown above came off a Mini 1100 engine but I've since fitted an alloy inlet manifold and Midget exhaust manifold since that picture was taken, the down pipe had to be modified to fit but it made quite a difference in performance.
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Kittyhawk
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby Kittyhawk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:56 am

Thank you all for the interesting and informative replies. I presume that drilling the thermostat as an alternative to the sandwich plate would not affect the heater warm up time?

Declan, is the DMG cover you mention, a way of using the sandwich plate with the bypass inlet on the pump, or is there an alignment issue I should be aware of? The heater valve looks good, although I was hoping to use the original one. I understand that because the new head has the heater outlet at an angle, I will need to modify the battery tray to make it fit?

The K&N filter is indeed a cone one. I will look at your suggestions for alternatives, as I don't want a lot of extra noise .I assume a pancake filter would be worse?

Regards

Roger

philthehill
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby philthehill » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:10 am

Drilling a couple of small holes in the rim of the thermostat will not effect heater warm up time as all you are doing is replicating the function of the by-pass facility. The number and combined size/area of the holes should be no more than the I.D. of the by-pass stub.

Fitting the sandwich plate will make the hose from thermostat housing to radiator misalign and if fitted will put unwanted strain on the radiator inlet which may led to the inlet breaking off the radiator or at best crack resulting in loss of coolant.

There are a couple of heater tap mounting modifications on this web site use the search facility to source the information.

Phil


panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:18 am

Probably be the same as there's no air box to dampen the noise out. I had the drilled air box on my Mini for a while but went back to the original (unique to the Rover carbed Cooper) and found it quieter without any detrimental effect. The drilled box does give a nice throaty growl though 8)
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Declan_Burns
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby Declan_Burns » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:37 am

Roger,
If you look at the old photos below you can see the misalignment problem with the 12G940 head and the thermostat housing. Not just the angle is off but also the height. The third photo shows the MGB thermostat angle which is also not perfect but better. The late Roy Allingham (bmcecosse) sent me a sandwich plate to correct the height. I have not tried the David Manners version.
Regards
Declan
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Regards
Declan

Declan_Burns
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby Declan_Burns » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:52 am

Roger,
You will have to look at what valve you are using. The repro Moggy heater valves are rubbish. The one I fitted did not last a year. I have an original Mini angled valve fitted for the last 10 years with no problems. I made several take-offs and had to combine them when I changed the head as I was too lazy to make another one. They are easy to make from 4mm flat iron and copper piping, sweat solder it all together and paint engine colour. Examples shown below.
No need to modify the battery tray.
Regards
Declan
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Regards
Declan

panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:23 pm

panky wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:05 pm
If it's a cone type K&N I personally wouldn't use it. I've done pretty much the same mods as you and did fit a K&N cone but it was very noisy. Instead i used a K&N element in a Mini air box with a few holes bored around the outside, no difference in performance and a lot quieter. In fact I fitted a K&N element inside the original - no holes air box on my tuned 1275 Mini Cooper and found no difference between that and the cone type - except for the noise.
Keith Calver did an experiment on an 850 Mini years ago. He compared the same car on a dyno using the standard filter/air box set up against a cone K&N and a drilled air box, the drilled air box beat the K&N by a couple of HP and the standard set up was albost the same as the K&N.
Edit to this. The engine Calver tested was actually a Mini 1100 so an even closer comparison with the Minor 1098.
Article here

https://www.calverst.com/air-filtration/
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Kittyhawk
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby Kittyhawk » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:08 pm

All useful information chaps. Thank you. I will now not use the cone K&N and have bought a Mini airbox which I will put some holes in and fit a K&N element. Does anyone have a recommendation for a needle for the HS4 with this set up?

panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:51 am

I used an AAU with the cast manifold but went to AAA with the alloy inlet and Midget exhaust manifolds.
Try the air box without the holes first and see how it feels, you can always add them later.
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Kittyhawk
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby Kittyhawk » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:36 pm

Good idea. Will do that. A question: the round mini airbox has two mounting holes which take the special long internally threaded wing nuts. One goes on the long stud in the 90 degree intake adaptor. Where does the other one go?

callyspoy
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby callyspoy » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:27 pm

That is on the abutment plate, so if you won't have the correct abutment, it will need a piece making up to allow it to bolt down.
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panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:45 pm

The abutment plate for the HS4 doesn't have the extra stud so I just blocked the hole in the airbox off with a gutter bolt, the stud in the inlet elbow seems to be enough to hold it all in place.
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callyspoy
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby callyspoy » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:04 am

Panky, i didn't want to suggest it as i hadn't done it myself before, but that is what i would do also.

Slight thread hijack...
My own Minor is a 998cc, 940 head, 1098 cam, HIF38 with K&N cone filter, AAA needle, Ital twin outlet exhaust manifold going into a 1.25" exhaust system.

Could the exhaust be restricting the engine enough to mean the AAA is too rich? I know it is too small diameter for optimal power, and i have a 1.75" RC40 twin box exhaust system to modify and fit, but i thought it would be ok for now, but the plugs definitely do suffer a bit. The tip is a decent enough brown colour, but it is quite black everywhere else.
I don't want to buy a leaner needle, only to find that the larger exhaust will allow it to breathe so much better that the AAA will be more suitable. (Partly because i accidentally sold a spare HS4 without removing the AAU needle that i had, idiot).

panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:31 am

Ah sorry I forgot, mines a 1098 so the AAA would be a bit rich so the AAU might be better. Have a look around to see what a 998 mini uses in a stage 1 kit, that may be more suitable
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paul 300358
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby paul 300358 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:53 am

I managed to get a NOS 2200 princess air box off eBay and adapted the original mounting plate to fit a hif38. Have a look at this thread https://www.morrisminorowners.co.uk/vie ... =13&t=9579, The air box inlet is 53mm dia.

panky
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Re: Traveller Tuning

Postby panky » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:06 am

paul 300358 wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:53 am
I managed to get a NOS 2200 princess air box off eBay and adapted the original mounting plate to fit a hif38. Have a look at this thread https://www.morrisminorowners.co.uk/vie ... =13&t=9579, The air box inlet is 53mm dia.
Neat solution, looks factory :)
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