Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

[ndevans]

Ok thanks. I'll try a couple of local hardware stores, but doubt I'll have any joy.

Cheers N

[philthehill]

Think positive - they will have some 5/16" UNF studding.

But if they do not...…………….

nearly as quick to get the studding off 'e' bay.

[ndevans]

Tried all the usual suspects in Bristol, all stock metric only. I'll try Moss on Monday, if not I'll order from eBay.

Cheers N

[ndevans]

Have managed to engineer a solution using some M8 threaded rod and short pieces of 1/8" thick angle to connect the adjustable brackets on the stand to the engine. I'm using the 5/16" bellhousing bolts to fix the angle to the engine. It's not perfect but it'll do. The only drawback I can see is that the bracket pivot isn't in line with the crankshaft, which the manual for the stand suggests it should be. I will order in some 5/16" rod from eBay, so that I can dispense with the angle. Next challenge is to get the engine onto the stand. I don't fancy doing my back in lifting it, so I think I'll wrap some rope around the engine, and use the hoist.

IMG_20190609_073719~2.jpg (2.04 MiB) Viewed 2051 times

Cheers N

[philthehill]

Unless it is an absolutely bare block I would advise that you use the engine hoist to install the engine and mounting bracket onto the stand.

The slots in the mounting bracket and the offset mounting bars enable the engine to be mounted in a variety of ways.

It is not imperative that you get the crankshaft in line with the stand pivot. The radial holes in the mounting bracket allow for some tilting of the engine.

When you rotate the engine on the stand the crankshaft will go out of line anyway.

[ndevans]

Job done!

What do you use to attach the hoist to the engine? I used rope wrapped around the block. For putting the engine in the car, I will have the head on and use the lifting eyes on the rocker bolts. I've used rope in the past, but should I use some chain? Should I get a load leveller?

IMG_20190609_172828~2.jpg (2.02 MiB) Viewed 2017 times

Cheers N

[Bowie69]

Rope is fine, assuming decent thickness, as is an old seat belt, ratchet strap etc. You only lifting an a series, no need for chains for that weight!

Similarly, no need for leveller either, easily man-handled into position.

[philthehill]

Its looking good.

I use two small short brackets with chains attached by shackles either end connected at the top end to a large shackle which fits over the hook of the hoist.

The two brackets fitted to the rocker cover were designed to be used with the BMC lifting bar - see wksp man for details.

If the chains/rope are/is too short and the angle between the chains/ropes is too great it can put excessive loading on the two 5/16" studs.

Whilst I do not use a leveling bar as I always remove my engine and gearbox as one unit and I have got the balance point off to a fine art -the advantage of the leveling bar is that the lifting chains can be hung near vertical to and from the BMC lifting brackets and it does help in connecting the engine and gearbox especially if the gearbox is already fitted.
If you do not have help to do the job a leveling bar is a great bonus.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cll500-load-leveller/

[ndevans]

Thanks for the tips. Rebuilding can now be done off the floor! Not promising I won't have a few more questions though!

Out of interest, I put the block with camshaft, pistons, con rods and crankshaft on the scales-it is 55kg in that form. The head is another 14kg without rocker cover, and the flywheel, surprisingly, only 2.5kg. At a guess, a fully assembled 1275 will be around 90kg, without oil & water. Haven't weighed the gearbox yet, that'll have to wait until I can sneak the scales into the garage again!

Cheers N

[ndevans]

Coming along nicely now, I managed to get the big ends and main bearings torqued up in minutes this evening. With the engine on the floor that would have been a battle to stop the engine turning. The stand has been worth it already.
On the subject of torques-what figure should I use for the big ends (Marina 1275, not A+)? I've gone to 40lbft so far. When I did the engine 3 yrs ago, I made copious notes, but managed to write two figures down for the big ends - 40 & 60 lbft. I'm guessing it's 40, as the BMC manual says 35 for a 1098.

Started timing chain assembly-I need to get no1 piston to tdc, can I do this by eye? I don't have a dti.

IMG_20190610_231249~2.jpg (1.72 MiB) Viewed 1958 times

Cheers N

[philthehill]

The torque for a 1275cc Marina engine big end cap nut is 35lbf ft. Same as the 1098cc bolt.

The torque for a 1275cc Marina engine main bearing cap bolt is 60lbf ft. Same as the 1098cc bolt.

Both the above taken from the BL Morris Marina wksp manual AKM4580.

Bring No: 1 piston to TDC (by eye is sufficient) - fit the crankshaft sprocket first (but not fully home) and align the timing mark towards the camshaft centre - fit the timing chain and camshaft sprocket making sure that both timing marks are aligned.
So long as the marks are aligned through the crankshaft and camshaft centres all will be well.

Place a straight edge over both crankshaft and camshaft teeth to ensure that the teeth are aligned. Add or subtract the shim washers behind the crankshaft sprocket to correct any misalignment.

The torque setting for the camshaft nut is 70lbf ft.

What timing chain type are you fitting? Simplex with rubber tensioning rings, simplex with tensioner or duplex?

[ndevans]

Thanks Phil. Do I need to re-torque the big ends and main bearings, or will they be ok at 40 & 70lbft?

The timing chain is a simplex with tensioner.

Cheers Neil

[philthehill]

I would re-torque.

If you are fitting the simplex with tensioner I would advise that you drill the Minor front engine plate to accommodate the head of the tensioner pivot pin and the additional timing cover retaining bolts.

Below is a MG Midget modified front engine plate with all the necessary holes:-

100_2242.JPG (1.05 MiB) Viewed 1913 times

You can use the original Marina front engine plate as a pattern with the two bolted together using the 1/4" UNF bolt holes.

100_2207.JPG (1.79 MiB) Viewed 1918 times

Some fit the pivot pin from the front and rivet but as you have got the engine in pieces I would replicate the BMC fitting process.

[ndevans]

I've just had the Minor front plate drilled for the extra cover bolt hole. I'll have to get a machine shop to drill the tensioner hole, I don't have a bench drill, and I'd rather not do something that size with a hand held power drill. Do you know what size it needs to be?

I don't have the Marina front plate unfortunately.

Cheers N

[philthehill]

The hole for the head of the pivot pin is 16.5mm.
It is that large to allow for the setting and adjustment of the tensioner.
I find that the tensioner can be set at about halfway along the slot. That gives a reasonable tension without the tensioner pad bearing too hard on the chain which can lead to rapid wear of the tensioning pad.

100_2206.JPG (1.86 MiB) Viewed 1900 times

Even though you do not have the Marina front engine plate it is reasonable easy to work out where the 16.5mm hole should be from the picture and physical assembly.

[ndevans]

I thought I had it somewhere, I managed to find the Marina engine front plate, so I have bolted it to the Minor front plate, and will get it drilled in a local machine shop tomorrow.
The reason why I've not had it done up to now is because I drilled out the mounting bracket of the tensioner so that the pivot pin fitted flush with the back. The pin can't go any further, because it won't fit through the nylon tensioner arm, and although it sticks out proud at the other side, there's just enough clearance to get the timing cover on.
Any, I'll get the plate drilled, then I can fit a standard tensioner.

Cheers N

IMG_20190611_225302~2.jpg (1.4 MiB) Viewed 1877 times

[philthehill]

I would not trust the bracket as shown in the picture above. There is quite a lot of chain chatter as it passes over the tensioner. Better to have the tensioner arrangement as produced by BMC/BL and then you know you are safe.
Whilst the tensioner mounting bracket is readily available the pivot pins are usually in short supply as they are obsolete from Rover - but they appear to be currently available from below.

http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search

http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... |Back%20to

[ndevans]

Managed to drill it myself, the machine shop can't do it until next week. Couldn't quite get to 16mm, my 15mm drill is bent, but I did manage 12mm. That gives enough adjustment for now. I've also found the tensioner bracket that came with the new pad that I bought, which doesn't have an oversize hole, so the pin sits in the right place.

I would think a decent machine shop could probably turn a pivot pin from a bit of steel rod? A suitable bolt would probably do, cut to length, if desperate.

Cheers N

[ndevans]

Ok, good progress. Timing chain back on, alignment checked as suggested, 1 extra shim added.

Couple of questions.

The camshaft nut is listed as 65lb-ft, but I don't have a suitable size socket. Will I get away with good and tight with a spanner, and do I bend the washer to lock the nut?

Cheers N

IMG_20190613_221635~2.jpg (1.19 MiB) Viewed 1760 times

[philthehill]

The torque of the camshaft nut as listed in the Marina/Ital wksp man is 60lbf ft - 70lbf ft - so 65lbf ft will be ok..

I would advise that you do torque the nut and to that end obtain the correct size socket.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIR-IMPACT-A ... Sw61dbpQ1j

The use of a six sided socket is best as it grips the nut better than the 12 point socket.

The socket I use has had the concave ground out so as to fully grip the nut and is of the six sided impact type.
I do have a 1 5/16" open ended spanner (of the type in the link below) to initially tighten the nut with the socket used for final tightening.
The spanner is quite thin and fits the camshaft nut very well. I would advise against using a ring spanner due to the concave face so less grip.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sirius-Open- ... SwSONcGQM5

What did you use to undo the crankshaft nut? The camshaft nut is the same size as the Marina/Ital crankshaft bolt.

Once the nut is tightened the lock tab should be bent over to lock the nut.