Not Starting

[les]

——shuffled off his mortal coil ! He’d have a laugh at that if he could still read the forum!!

[oliver90owner]

I knew that. I had been ‘on his naughty step’ at least once. It wasn’t always the condenser, either.

[les]

Ah yes the ‘naughty step’ he wouldn’t take any nonsense!

[alawrence10360]

I think there is some history here Im not apart of but in any event thanks for all your help

[don58van]

Just so you know, Roy Allingham (bmcecosse on this site) is the person we are alluding to.
Roy was very knowledgeable about old cars, especially Minors. He was generous with his help for those needing Minor advice (as are others on here I must add). He was also very opinionated and inclined to be mischievous--which meant that he annoyed some. On the other hand, when other posters upset him, he put them on his virtual 'naughty step' and would not interact with them.
Here is the amazing bit: He had over 50,000 (IIRC) posts on this forum!!!!!
He also had huge numbers of posts on other car forums.
One of his most common declarations for those with engine problems was '...its never the coil'. (This, it seems, has become less true as poor quality items flooded the market over recent years.)
I hope this helps you understand our in-joke.
Don

[oliver90owner]

Ah yes the ‘naughty step’ he wouldn’t take any nonsense!

Yes, but on some things he was intransigent and at times wrong.

His differential ratios did not fit the accepted convention, for a start.

Nobody is perfect.

[les]

Never mind, the man was a character and consequently missed.

[geoberni]

Still not sure about that pipe that goes to atmosphere

But this is the bit that's intriguing me.... having a random length of pipe failing around the engine bay....
Looking back at your own past posts, it appeared to be tucked down the back.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69754&p=634359#p634359
If it is supposed to be some form of overflow for the carb, I would expect any fuel to be well away from the exhaust....

[paul 300358]

I have a HIF38 carb fitted and I have fitted a similar pipe to allow any vented petrol fumes to exit away from the exhaust.

[alawrence10360]

This worries me also however I placed it there for the photo to show it was not connected to anything.I will ensure it is touted safely
Of more concern is I have a electric fuel pump pushing fuel under pressure to a carb inlet which is directly above the exhaust manifold
If it leaks or splits in this area Im sure It would go up in smoke
So much so that during the fault finding exercise I had a fire extinguisher close at hand and I was constantly isolating the battery
Ive considered wrapping the manifold but that may just create a wick..
The pipe is reinforced and the joint is tight.
Am I worrying too much ?

[philthehill]

If you have the vent/overspill pipe exiting below the exhaust manifold and in the air stream under the car there will be no problem.

The original HS2 carb had only a basic vent to the float chamber lid which was directly above the exhaust manifold and I have never heard of a Minor or other 'A' Series engine car going up in flames because of float chamber vent fumes or overspill.

The larger 'H' and 'HD' Series SU carbs had long metal vent/overflow pipes from the float chamber lid which exited below the bottom of the block.

So to answer your question - yes I do think that you are being overly concerned.

If you are still worried fit a mechanical pump (provided you have the fuel pump aperture) as if the engine is not getting fuel it stops and therefore the fuel flow to the carb stops.

You can also fit fuel injection rubber pipe which is stronger and suitable for modern fuels. I obtained the fuel injection rubber pipe for use on my Minor from Halfords.

You could also fit an automatic fuel shut off valve that shuts when the valve detects no pressure between it and the carb. There are various types on the market. Quite a bit of information on the web.

[myoldjalopy]

Just so you know, Roy Allingham (bmcecosse on this site) is the person we are alluding to.
One of his most common declarations for those with engine problems was '...its never the coil'. (This, it seems, has become less true as poor quality items flooded the market over recent years.)

Quite so, but Roy's caveat was always that his 'catchphrase' only applied to older coils, not to poor quaity, modern facimiles made (as he often put it) "in a tin hut in a far-away place."

[StillGotMy1stCar]

Regarding fuel onto the manifold, years ago I was coming back from doing the grocery shopping with mother and the car (Marina) stopped. I found the pipe had perished and broken where it goes into the carb spraying the manifold with fuel, luckily I had a knife to cut the bit off the carb and cut the pipe back a bit and refit. It broke twice after on the short journey home, the Leaded 4-Star smoking on the manifold each time but no flames.
The heat makes it vaporise very quickly
The Marina has a mechanical lift pump so as Phil mentioned above when the engine stops the fuel delivery stops and the fuel pipe wasn't the braided type, just plain nitrile rubber.
John

[myoldjalopy]

And that story illustrates why it is a good idea to periodically check the condition of hoses/fuel lines etc. in the engine bay so you can replace them before they crack or split............

[alawrence10360]

"Regarding fuel onto the manifold, years ago I was coming back from doing the grocery shopping with mother and the car (Marina) stopped. I found the pipe had perished and broken where it goes into the carb spraying the manifold with fuel, luckily I had a knife to cut the bit off the carb and cut the pipe back a bit and refit. It broke twice after on the short journey home, the Leaded 4-Star smoking on the manifold each time but no flames.
The heat makes it vaporise very quickly
The Marina has a mechanical lift pump so as Phil mentioned above when the engine stops the fuel delivery stops and the fuel pipe wasn't the braided type, just plain nitrile rubber./quote]"


I think you werevery lucky
Petrol can easily combust at the sort of temperatures an exhaust manifold reaches.
Even the vapour in an enclosed space with all the spark inducing equipment in the engine bay is risky
Given my particular application I will ensure I have no leaks in the short term and look at a mechanical pump as Phil suggested

[oliver90owner]

Petrol/air mix really needs a spark to ignite it - or an incandescent surface. Ethanol in petrol may (have) change(d) that. Brake fluid is far more likely to cause a fire if dripped on a hot surface.

We were travelling at probably over a 100, back in 1977, down the Tring motorway (it was only a short stretch in those days) when the metal pipe into the carb ‘dropped out’. The first we knew about it was the cabin filling with petrol fumes. Ignition off, pronto, and coasted off the motorway. There was petrol ‘steam’ issuing from around the bonnet.

We were lucky that there were no sparks that day. Possibly because the sparks were on the exhaust side of the head, distributor was at the front of the engine and at high speed all the fumes were shoved out rearwards at least until after the ignition was killed. We were out of the car in double-quick time. I didn’t even think of turning off the courtesy light before exiting, but the windows were already open by then.

[alawrence10360]

An incandescent surface is exactly what you can have on exhaust manifold with the engine on load.
In my job as an engine test engineer I have seen this often.
I would not agree that brake fluid is more likely to ignite in the same circumstances.

In any event the vapour created by petrol on a lower temperature manifold (non-incandescent) combined with the air in the engine bay and the ignition sources such as the contacts on an SU fuel pump or a distributor etc is a more likely risk.

As a 17 year old apprentice working on my first Mini fitting a Nikki (the poor man's Webber) carb I inadvertently cranked the engine with the fuel disconnected
In the blink of an eye the engine bay was on fire.
Im very glad you were luckier than me.

[oliver90owner]

An incandescent surface is exactly what you can have on exhaust manifold with the engine on load.
In my job as an engine test engineer I have seen this often.
I would not agree that brake fluid is more likely to ignite in the same circumstances.

In any event the vapour created by petrol on a lower temperature manifold (non-incandescent) combined with the air in the engine bay and the ignition sources such as the contacts on an SU fuel pump or a distributor etc is a more likely risk.

As a 17 year old apprentice working on my first Mini fitting a Nikki (the poor man's Webber) carb I inadvertently cranked the engine with the fuel disconnected
In the blink of an eye the engine bay was on fire.
Im very glad you were luckier than me.

Try this:
https://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/fu ... temps.html

Yes, we were lucky. Perhaps because of the points in my previous post (and that Fords were fitted with a mechanical fuel pump).