Why is this rubbing the back of my wheel?

[Andymoor94]

Hi all,

When I make a sharp right turn, I hear a scraping sound. One a drive, I tested the difference between a slow turn (junction) and a quicker turn (roundabout) and it seems to get worse with body roll/g-force.

I noticed this suspension component touching my wheel. Now I'm still new to all of this suspension malarkey, so could somebody give me an idea of why this could be occurring and how I go about fixing it before I go twisting and removing things that I shouldn't!

Thanks

[Andymoor94]

Wow, this is why you shouldn't troubleshoot in the dark. Even I can see from the picture how f**ked that bush is

[philthehill]

In addition to the worn out trunnion you need to look at the thick/thin suspension arms and make sure that they are both ok.

On a similar vein - Morris Marinas suffered with the steering turning too much and fouling the suspension. BL removed the problem by fitting special nuts to the trunnion to limit the turning action.

I would recommend that you strip, examine and replace the worn out parts urgently before you have the suspension collapse in the most inconvenient place and at the most inconvenient time.

Phil

[Mark Wilson]

Don't even think about driving it! Worn trunnions and swivel pins are the reason so many older people ask "do the wheels still fall off?"

[myoldjalopy]

Wow, this is why you shouldn't troubleshoot in the dark. Even I can see from the picture how f**ked that bush is

From looking at your picture I think you are referring to the trunnion dust seal, rather than a bush, although it may be that your various suspension bushes are also worn. As stated by others, your issue is quite likely to be worn swivels/trunnions.....

[simmitc]

Regardless of how worn or otherwise the trunnion and bush are, I do not see how they would possibly be "touching the wheel", and do not understand which bit in the photo you think is touching. I agree that you need to strip and examine all the components, replacing as needed. The procedure is covered in the workshop manual. As an initial check, raise the wheel off the ground and see whether it spins freely or whether the bearing sounds and feels rough - it may be something else to add to the overhaul. Whilst you're at it, clean inside the brake drum too. Whatever you do to one side of the car, also check the other - the parts are probably of the same age.

How familiar are you with working on the car - we don't want to teach you to suck eggs, but equally these components are safety critical, and working on them requires safe practice to jack the car and take the tension off the torsion bar; so we can add further warnings and cautions if you are in any doubt. The good news, is that it can all be fixed quite simply. I did my first one at the side of the road with the manual open beside me and a few tools in a wheelbarrow pushed from home.

[Andymoor94]

Regardless of how worn or otherwise the trunnion and bush are, I do not see how they would possibly be "touching the wheel", and do not understand which bit in the photo you think is touching. I agree that you need to strip and examine all the components, replacing as needed. The procedure is covered in the workshop manual. As an initial check, raise the wheel off the ground and see whether it spins freely or whether the bearing sounds and feels rough - it may be something else to add to the overhaul. Whilst you're at it, clean inside the brake drum too. Whatever you do to one side of the car, also check the other - the parts are probably of the same age.

How familiar are you with working on the car - we don't want to teach you to suck eggs, but equally these components are safety critical, and working on them requires safe practice to jack the car and take the tension off the torsion bar; so we can add further warnings and cautions if you are in any doubt. The good news, is that it can all be fixed quite simply. I did my first one at the side of the road with the manual open beside me and a few tools in a wheelbarrow pushed from home.

I don't think the picture actually shows it well, but the actual lower trunnion is scraping. The scraping damage is evident on the trunnion but not the wheel hub.

The good news for everyone is that I do have the sense to not drive it, and have parked it on the drive until I get it sorted. Will be stripping it later this week.

Now I'm great with mopeds and engines, have completely rebuilt them, but a Morris suspension setup is new to me, though not something I don't think I can learn. I have safely jacked the car up in the past and done simple repairs, but suspension is new to me. Plenty of diagrams and research later, including talking to Richard at Charles Ware, I have a fair idea of what's involved. I have experience in removing parts, after stripping my last Moggy - Not so much in putting it all back though, I'm hoping that's where you guys can come in! The torsion bars, I could do with some warnings for anything I may run into

Edit: Spelling

[simmitc]

Sorry, I may be being a bit pedantic, but with good reason - so that when we advise on certain parts, then we know that we are all talking about the same thing. Don't worry, we all started knowing very little and had to learn as we went along. As I said, I just want to ensure that we are speaking about the same parts.

The lower trunnion is nowhere near the wheel, and cannot touch the hub either. If you remove the wheel then the trunnion will still be touching the rear of the brake back plate, and the hub will still be on the stub axle on the other side of the back plate.

Preparing for when you tackle the job, remove any underseal covering nuts which secure the suspension arms and tie rod, and also those at the rear of the torsion bar where it attaches to the centre crossmember. Soak all nuts in penetrating fluid such as plus gas for as long as possible. This will make stripping down easier. You will not need to remove the eyebolt from the chassis leg. I suspect that you may need to remove the whole upright, in which case also prepare the nut at the rear of the top trunnion and also the brake hose connectors.

The car and moped look very nice and good together.

[MCYorks]

Just a thought. I once had a similar problem where taking LH bends at speed would result in a scraping sound. RH bends or running in a straight line were fine. On inspection it turned out to be an excessively worn wheel bearing. This was allowing the brake drum to touch the back-plate. Always a very good idea to check the trunnions, swivel pins and other suspension components though.

[simmitc]

Just a thought. I once had a similar problem where taking LH bends at speed would result in a scraping sound. RH bends or running in a straight line were fine. On inspection it turned out to be an excessively worn wheel bearing. This was allowing the brake drum to touch the back-plate.

Spot on, and why I suggested raising the wheel and checking the bearing a few posts up.

[Andymoor94]

Just a thought. I once had a similar problem where taking LH bends at speed would result in a scraping sound. RH bends or running in a straight line were fine. On inspection it turned out to be an excessively worn wheel bearing. This was allowing the brake drum to touch the back-plate. Always a very good idea to check the trunnions, swivel pins and other suspension components though.

You're not the first to say this to me either! I saw the trunnion and put 2 and 2 together... Problem is I got 5

Well, as I'll be having the wheels off for inspection, may as well fit the new bearing(s) at the same time. Is there anything I need to be aware of with that procedure that isn't already in the manual?

[Andymoor94]

Just a thought. I once had a similar problem where taking LH bends at speed would result in a scraping sound. RH bends or running in a straight line were fine. On inspection it turned out to be an excessively worn wheel bearing. This was allowing the brake drum to touch the back-plate.

Spot on, and why I suggested raising the wheel and checking the bearing a few posts up.

Thanks for the pedantic explanation, it really is useful to go with the "try to suck eggs"! In my case, I know next to nothing about suspension, so all learning from this point!

So it looks like the wheel bearing may be at fault with the scraping sound. Is there any way to test this with the wheel in the air?

I'm hoping that the now separate trunnion issue is a bent swivel pin. Seems that trunnions are having issues at manufacturer, ESM and Charlse Ware confirmed that! Is there a rule of thumb for replacing trunnions as for as second hand ones are concerned?

[alanworland]

In the workshop manual reference is made to tyres rubbing the lower inner wing flange - might be worth a look.

Alan

[Andymoor94]

In the workshop manual reference is made to tyres rubbing the lower inner wing flange - might be worth a look.

Alan

That was my first concern. Full lock stationary, no sign of rubbing, but I can imagine if swapping the bearing does t fix it, it could well be

[Flywheel]

May I please ask, are the trunnions and swivels both the same?
The Haynes manual doesn't seem to make this clear.
I couldn't find any reference to trunnions in the book.
Thanks Jonnie.

[simmitc]

Most long term Minor owners know what trunnions are, yet it's very rare to find a reference to them in a dictionary (remember them?), spellchecker, or manual, so some puzzlement is understandable. In Haynes, page 147 the diagram shows 6 = upper link and 8 = lower link. Those are the trunnions. Item 4 = King pin and stub axle, also known as suspension upright or swivel pin. Hope that helps. The only thing not shown on that diagram is the brake back plate that is attached by bolts passing through the four holes in the upright.

[jagnut66]

Hi,
Some of what you will need (if you don't already have them):

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead ... BA3&adurl=
I choose to fit the green ones as they are not too hard and much better than modern rubber. (x 4 - 2 per side)

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... gs-p830567 (x 2)

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -h-p830546

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -h-p830547

https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/34 ... hand-lower

https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/34 ... hand-lower

https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/suspens ... 50160.html

Left hand lower trunnion kits seem to be in short supply at present. SC have them but they are not the cheapest by far......
Assuming you have a castellated nut on the upper one you will need a new split pin each side, I'm not sure of the size off the top of my head, so here's a selection (someone will be along to confirm):
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -2-p830507
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -2-p830569
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -2-p830574

I keep a box full of various sizes of split pins, as you never know when you might want one with old cars.
Hope the above is of some help.
Don't worry, it's not a difficult job, just time consuming.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[philthehill]

The word trunnion relates originally to the cylindrical projection either side of a cannon or mortar which supports the cannon or mortar in the gun carriage. It allows the cannon or mortar to rotate about the trunnion carrier in the gun carriage to provide elevation or depression.

In relation to the Morris Minor - the trunnion (pin) to be specific is the pin that fits through the bottom swivel link and about which the bottom swivel link rotates when the suspension is elevated or depressed similar to a cannon or mortar.

The same can be said of the top trunnion pin about which the top swivel link rotates. The arrangement of holding the top trunnion pin is different to the bottom trunnion pin in that it is only fixed on one side but provided full support for the top swivel link as it passes right through the top swivel link and has clamping washers either side of the top swivel link to keep the top swivel link in place.

The two trunnion pins described above provide vertical rotation whilst the swivel pin which has the stub axle and steering arm attached to it provides horizontal rotation.

Tappets are another wrongly described item. With the 'A' Series engine they should be called cam followers as they follow the profile of the cam and do not act directly on the valve stem but via the rocker gear. The Minor side valve engine does have tappets as they act directly on the valve with no mechanical advantage.

[jagnut66]

The word trunnion relates originally to the cylindrical projection either side of a cannon or mortar which supports the cannon or mortar in the gun carriage. It allows the cannon or mortar to rotate about the trunnion carrier in the gun carriage to provide elevation or depression.

Excellent idea! Lets arm all Morris Minors with Cannons!
Best wishes,
Mike.

[Andymoor94]

Hi,
Some of what you will need (if you don't already have them):

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead ... BA3&adurl=
I choose to fit the green ones as they are not too hard and much better than modern rubber. (x 4 - 2 per side)

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... gs-p830567 (x 2)

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -h-p830546

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -h-p830547

https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/34 ... hand-lower

https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/34 ... hand-lower

https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/suspens ... 50160.html

Left hand lower trunnion kits seem to be in short supply at present. SC have them but they are not the cheapest by far......
Assuming you have a castellated nut on the upper one you will need a new split pin each side, I'm not sure of the size off the top of my head, so here's a selection (someone will be along to confirm):
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -2-p830507
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -2-p830569
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/front ... -2-p830574

I keep a box full of various sizes of split pins, as you never know when you might want one with old cars.
Hope the above is of some help.
Don't worry, it's not a difficult job, just time consuming.
Best wishes,
Mike.

Mike to the rescue yet again. I'm going to have to start paying you wages for this!

Yeah the available trunnion is expensive, but in comparison to a swivel pin or not driving my car for the next year or so, I think I can bear it!