Kernel panic - rusty main frame, advice please?

Post by **Bluesman** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:07 pm

Guys - while initially fixing with the brakes on our 1960 2-door, this rotten spot turned up its ugly face - location: immediately fore and aft of the front right side torsion bar support/anchorage in da frame.

A not-so-nice crack in the partly repaired and rotted metal....

This is the only totally rotten spot on this car (touch wood). Somebody´s been "touching up" this section and the foremost piece under the radiator a long time ago, with 0.8 mm steel...

A couple of Q:s:

Best way to fix this? It can´t be fixed with gaffa tape, so it has to be welded - I know.

That bushing....is it rubber? Is there a pipe or some other reinforcement through the frame, so I don´t have to worry about front suspension geometry (I can imagine the torsion bar mount point moving under load/with this damage) while fixing it?

Lots of you guys have repaired stuff like this. This is the time for you to shine. I appreciate any and all advice I can get. What thickness steel do I need to fix this? Best procedure? Available replacement parts?

Cheers /Richard

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:26 pm

You will need a new chassis leg - and yes there is a 'pipe' through the leg - and yes rubber bushes although the eye bolt goes straight through the pipe - metal to metal. And to be honest - if one side is like this - the other will be very similar. http://www.morrisminorspares.net/shop_item.php?ID=2736 and you may well find you need a new 'tie=plate' http://www.morrisminorspares.net/shop_item.php?ID=2684 to go above the leg in the engine bay.
You had better look at the other end of the torsion bar - here it bolts into a cross member http://www.morrisminorspares.net/shop_item.php?ID=2694 . If this is rotten (and it usually is) it's a job to replace it!
There are also numerous 'sill' and floor parts - better check if these are really solid - or knackered. The outer covers which you see when you open the doors just come off with a few screws - not structural - the real horrors lie below.

Post by **Chief** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:21 am

The outer covers which you see when you open the doors just come off with a few screws

Aren't they also held on by the two bolts underneath the chassis at the very edge?

Post by **alex_holden** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:41 am

Chief wrote:
The outer covers which you see when you open the doors just come off with a few screws
Aren't they also held on by the two bolts underneath the chassis at the very edge?

There should be four or five bolts on the bottom edge and possibly some self tapping screws on the top.

Post by **kennatt** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:10 am

blusman by the look of that chassis leg,you have some work on your hands. Have you pulled out the rear seat and looked inside the box section that the seat sits on. You can see inside through a series of holes.It is an often overlooked area when rust preventing. If it is also badly rusted out then sometimes the car is not economically rebuildable.Good luck with it.

Post by **Bluesman** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:12 am

Hmm..you guys really know how to cheer me up

I will have to go to the garage to have a look at the other leg, and under the back seat as well.

Uncool. This car is turning into a semi-expensive winter project.

Ah well - I have been known to run (and win/complete) more suicidal projects than this one. Thanks for wishing me luck - I might need a truckload of it in weeks to come.

Cheers /Richard

Post by **Bluesman** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:59 pm

Oh, ye doomsday prophets -

I just came back from checking things out. The left side chassis leg is OK, and has not been tampered with. The horizontal panel in the engine compartment where the chassis leg is welded to seems ok too. The box beneath the rear seat is practically as new all the way, even in the deep bottom, so...there is still hope. Sills not checked yet.

Now - doomsday out of the way for now - what is considered best practice/procedure for a chassis leg repair?

I might say that a) it´s going to be the "repair" bit I try to weld on, not the entire chassis leg and b) a rollover thingy is not an option. This job will probably have to be done from the floor...

Q: will I need to reinforce the area before I cut out the rotted bits? How does the lover wheel support bolt connect thru the chassis leg?

Q: How critical are the measurements - will a bolt hole that is misplaced by a mm or 2 totally screw up the geometry?

Tips and pointers welcome, as always.

Cheers /Richard, born optimist

Post by **youngun** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:18 pm

When dealing with chassis legs, its best to get them in as accurately as possible as they set the geometry of your car. If you get it wrong, you may find yourself "crabbing" down the road.
That said, its easy enough to make sure you get it right. Take some measurements from a number of set points, and work from those when you come to put in the new leg. Also if you can, make some kind of jig that will accurately hold the new leg in place so you have both hands free to weld, tap, wack etc!

Good luck!
Stuff like that always looks daunting, but once you've plucked up the courage to get the angle grinder out and start, its actually very straightforward!

YG

Post by **svantemann** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:41 pm

Bluesman wrote:
b) a rollover thingy is not an option. This job will probably have to be done from the floor...

Tips and pointers welcome, as always.

Cheers /Richard, born optimist

Hi Bluesman

Rollover is VERY EASY, you can rool over a Morris Minor yourself !!
If you want some info or pics about this, please PM me.
Regards
Svantemann

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:39 pm

You really ARE going to need a whole new chassis leg there - and it will be the fastest/easiest way to do the job . Yes, you will need to whip the torsion bar and eye-bolt off - but it should all be do-able from below if you can get the car high enough - and safely secure of course. Have you prodded the rear spring mounts - front/rear and damper reaction rod mount. And - poke around the fuel tank, especially at the very back. You need to find ALL the rust now so you know what's in store before you start spending time and money on the job.

Post by **Bluesman** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:52 pm

Bmc - why would a total replecement of the chassis leg be faster/easier than sticking in the "repair" bit?? Just curious, please explain? And no, I havent poked everywhere yet, as fixing the rusty bits is a 2-stage rocket. Dangerous and collapsing stuff goes first - ASAP- and the rest comes later. It´s a long winter.

Cheers /Richard

Post by **Roni** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:09 am

This might help

Post by **Bluesman** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:39 am

Ah, OK. Point taken. Perfectly straight bits, no need to join new and old leg and thereby risking weak joints or old rust infecting new bits. Once out, the new one will bolt in perfectly with no measurement issues. Hopefully. *smiles*

Thanks! /R

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:57 pm

Exactly - you would be searching for ages for any 'solid' metal to weld a patch to! I think even the one shown above is a 'half' leg - the complete leg is longer and runs right back to the suspension X member - which you said earlier was in a 'state' ?

Post by **les** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:16 pm

The inner strengthening around the eye bolt is much more complex than the poor effort shown in the picture, make sure there is at least another channel fitted inside the replacement leg.

Post by **Roni** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:59 pm

It doesn't show well in the photo but there is a second channel spot welded inside the leg as well as the localised re-inforcing. It is a half leg, stops just before the master cylinder.
The reason for replacing this section was the testing station was not happy with the "repairs on top of repairs on top of repairs." As they pointed out the patches and welds may look ok, but what is under it?

Post by **Bluesman** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:27 pm

Les - please explain? You mean a stiffening/box section that stiffens up the part where the bolt goes through? Picture example?
Cheers /Richard

Post by **kennatt** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:50 pm

http://www.auto-part.com/auto/shop/Display.asp?page=25 bluesman this may help

Post by **Bluesman** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:24 pm

Hmm. yes, that was enlightening, thanks

I guess I´ll handle it once I am under the car. I am just being cautious, I hate on-site surprises (other than those that this car will present me with) that I could have prevented by asking and triple-checking.

What I need to know now is purely mechanical:
How do I support the chassis once the bolt that holds the right side lower wheel suspension is gone? Simply prop it up against the crossmembers etc?

And: How should I go about loosening the bolt - will there be torsion bar momentum that makes stuff jump in my face? Do I need to disassemble the entire right side wheel suspension? WOuld it be enough to just loosen the bolt, take it out, and move the lower assembly out of the way?

SO many Q:s....

Cheers /Richard

Post by **alex_holden** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:39 pm

Follow the procedure in the manual for releasing the torsion bar. It involves supporting the lower arm with a jack, unbolting the lower arm from the bottom trunnion, then lowering the jack.