Door mis-alingment problem

[iandromiskin]

I've just noticed something wrong with my traveller passanger door in that it doesn't seem to close properly. This car is currently up on axle stands as i'm slowly doing some work on it removing kick plates and cleaning out the inside for future work. So far it appears that it will need two complete front floors as well as complete sill on both sides, so needless to say this car is a bit holey at the front. Both chassis legs too have a few holes and they too will need replacement.

The door in question appears to sag when its opened, so when you open it it appears to drop a few inches and not line up properly with the B post and you have to slam it to get it closed. I'm nearly sure there is no rot or movement in the A post / door pillar as the door does not seem to move when I wobble it on the hinges. So what else could be wrong.

I suspect that perhaps with all the structural problems that maybe the car is beginning to sag as a whole means that I'll to brace the underside of the sill with a jack or similar, make sure the door lines up properly and weld in a couple of bracing pieces to ensure it holds its shape. The only thing that I don't understand with this diagnosis it that the drivers door is perfect in that it lines up properly and closes spot on with no distortion. I would presume that if the car was breaking its back that both doors would experience problems ????

Any ideas ????

[aupickup]

but the door is in a welded framework ie, cill, roof, a and b posts, so if all this is ok at the present

is it the hinges

[iandromiskin]

I havn't cut out, unbolted or removed anything on the passanger side yet. So the kick plates are still attached to the sills, all the floors are still in place etc and the door is still attached to the frame. As far as I can see there is no rot or rust in either the A or B post or in the hinges. The hinges appear to be solidly bolted to the pillar and there is no movement as far as I can see.

If there is movement in the I presume the door should move a bit up and down, but it doesn't. If the problem is in the pillar what should I be looking out for in particular. I'll try and post some pictures soon too to illustrate what I'm talking about too.

[aupickup]

the pillar will flex around the hinges

if there is flex in the a post it could be rotten against the inner wing, rear of hinge pillar

check the bottom of the a post as well when doing this

a small movement when the door is open magnifies in a greater movement when the door is shut

[mogbob]

Sounds as though the bottom of the A post base and / or the inner wing joint (s) are " not attached" by sound metal, allowing the door to drop when open.
The inner wing joint is covered by a plate preventing any accurate visual inspection.
Remove the front wheel on that side ,after safely jacking up and putting on axle stands, use a long length of wood to spread the load.Stick your head under the wing , looking back towards the A post with a good strong light source.Have a scrape with a blunt chisel/ old screwdriver at the bottom corner.
Wear some form of eye protection, get your head under the car immediately under the A post and do the same again, avoiding any falling rust flakes.
"Theory" is that the nearside gets more water thrown up and rusts quicker than the offside but .... both sides can be affected regardless.
Once you can see what you are dealing with you can accurately put together the order of the remedial treatment.

Sounds from the rest of your description you have a marathon welding session ahead of you to correct the overall defects.So get those braces in, to avoid distortion when the old rusty stuff is chopped out.
Good luck.
Bob

[bmcecosse]

And the whole shell will be twisting due to lack of torsional stiffness! you should get it back to the correct shape - and weld in some temporary stiffners to hold it in correrct shape as you work on it!

[iandromiskin]

I managed to take the nearside front wing off today and the A post / pillar looks fine on the front face. There is no rust anywhere on the face of it or indeed underneath. The door side of the pillar looks ok too. Any suggestions ??? Bit puzzled now. I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow.

[mogbob]

Have you removed the kick plate to come to this conclusion "door side of the pillar looks ok too " ?
Replacement panels may have been installed years ago but the base of the A post behind these may still be " detached ".
Bob

[rich-legg]

Also it's a good idea to have the car on all 4 wheels when checking alignment, rather than axle stands.

If you are restoring it i'd, recommend fitting new hinge pins. You can get refurbed hedges with new pins in them, something like £14 I think.

Can you see if it lines up with the catches? Are there any shims behind the hinges or catches? If there are you should take these out for now.

[iandromiskin]

Went to the shed today and managed to get the passanger kick plate off to see how bad the sills are. Here is a selection of pictures to illustrate the problem.


Rusty passenger sills etc.



Base of the A post. Bad or what ? Again I rocked the door to see if there was any movement but I couldn't see any wobble or movement in the door at all.



Front of A post. No rust of decay.



Underneath A post.



This is top of the passanger door when open. It appears to fall by about an inch from true.



When it closes it rubs off this part of the door frame.

[timmo]

cant really see much..bit dark Try losening the bottom hinge bolts on th A post, then shut the door and see if there is a gap between the back of hinge and A post. Try putting a thin shim between and tighten the bolts and see if that has made a difference

[rich-legg]

Has the front inner wing had a repair in the past? How long has the door been like it?

[iandromiskin]

Not to my knowledge, but I see what you mean. I'll have a closer look next time I'm in the shed. I'm not sure how long the door has been like this. I've only noticed it or remember it from the time its been up on stands. I honestly can't remember if its been like this over the past few years. I hope soon to get it on the ground again and off the stands to see if that makes any difference.

[mogbob]

A worn hinge ( given the car's age ) and the absence of solid connecting metal at the base of the A post = door misalignment.
With the door fully open, construct a "fixed point" under the rear edge of the open door.An axle stand with a few off-cuts of wood is an easy thing to put together.Now lift the rear edge of the door and see how much movement you get on the botom corner.An inch or two.. is not unusual with such a lack of metal at the bottom of the A post.A worn hinge pin will allow the door to move but not to the same extent.
Fix the metal first and then re-assess the hinge pin when the apperture is solid.Don't forget to brace the door opening.
Bob

[jonathon]

I'd suggest a quick test of the hinges to see if they are worn, if they are then replace first, before attempting any steelwork.