Door bottom repairs
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Door bottom repairs
Apologies if this has been asked/shown before - I have searched the bodywork section and can't find any pics so.....
Does anyone have any pictures of a door bottom repair panel being fitted?
Also, it looks like a pretty straight forward repair panel to fit but are there any issues that I need to keep in mind when tackling this job?
Thanks,
Ian
Does anyone have any pictures of a door bottom repair panel being fitted?
Also, it looks like a pretty straight forward repair panel to fit but are there any issues that I need to keep in mind when tackling this job?
Thanks,
Ian
AOW68K 1971 van undergoing restoration
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Re: Door bottom repairs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
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Re: Door bottom repairs
I have written a short article for our newsletter (Dorset Branch) and I can send the text and photos to you if you (privately) send me an email.[frame][/frame]
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Actually, I suppose I should 'post' it (I'm new to this - OK) so here is the article. I have included some of the photos as well>>
(not quite as good as the YouTube vid however!)
Following on from our look at door handles in September 2010, we now take a look at the rust situation. Do your doors have those tell-tale rust bubbles along the bottom or even large orange outlined holes? If you think the doors are OK, have a look underneath. The rust bug often lurks there and sometimes only emerges through the outer door skin when there is terminal damage to the door. It is often ok to cut out rusty bits and ‘graft’ in new steel in the damaged areas, but it is easy to miss other areas which are partially rusted which will emerge when you have painted it in the near future. If a job is worth doing… etc. It may be better to consider replacement of the entire lower panel(s).Jacky’s car had several bubbles appearing in the area of interest, so I had a go using a repair kit. The repair panel kits are available with the inner panel at about £25 and the outers at about £25-£30 depending on the model (2 or 4 door). They are actually not that difficult to fit, provided you take your time and make sure you check the panels for a good fit at each stage. Previous welding experience is recommended, however. You can, if you are really keen, get the entire door skin for the thick end of £200 each, but I have never felt the need to do one of these myself. If the door is that bad, you can find probably find a less rusty one at the next autojumble!
Whilst it is probably easier to do the repair with the door off the car, you may wish to leave the door shell on the car while you at least tack-weld the panel in position. In this way, you will be able to make sure you haven't induced any distortion and can check that the door still shuts properly! Also, I always clamp a piece of stout angle or square section to the bottom edge to prevent (or at least discourage) it from turning ‘banana’ shaped.
Start by laying the new outer panel over the door marking out about 12mm (1/2”) lower than the height of the new panel - which can then be ‘joggled’ with a step under the upper part of the remaining door skin, when you have cut away the old bit. The remainder of the old skin bottom has to be carefully removed bit by bit, particularly the folds around the edges and bottom. A dustpan and brush is very useful for the considerable quantity of rust and ‘compost’ that comes out of the door. The inner section of the door bottom can be purchased as repair panel, but if you are a bit tight (like me) you can make your own quite easily with a flat piece of steel with one fold to get the bottom edge. Don’t forget to replicate the drain holes, though. This plate can be easily welded to the inside edge of the door and also to the reinforcing panel at the front. The panel I used was galvanised (and you should grind off the galvanising where you are welding - to avoid toxic fumes). This should be done first and sealant applied to the joints.
When you fit the new outer panel, the most important bit (in my humble opinion) is the alignment of the curved bit in the middle with the curved bit in the rest of the door. The ends can be adjusted to suit, if necessary but if you don’t line up the curved swage top and bottom, the finished door is never going to look right. It’s a good idea not do too much welding at once, doing a little at a time to avoid heat build up. I always keep a damp cloth handy to control the spread of heat. I almost exclusively use my mig welder but I would not gas weld the top joint due to the potential for distortion. Mig welding is inherently cooler than gas welding. Distortion of the door skin is probably more of a worry than the bottom edge since there is a greater unsupported area to look out for. However, the ‘joggle’ should help to slightly increase the stiffness of the panel. The completed welding of the external panel is shown in the photographs and after final spraying. I would also recommend lead loading to finish the joint, but on this job I used a bit of good quality body filler.
Also recommended is the fitting of ‘lip’ type door window seals. We live close to some large Oak trees which shed a lot of leaves etc. My theory is that these stop a lot of the debris etc entering the door between the drop glass and the ‘felt’ strip, which collects in the area just repaired. This ‘compost’ then acts as a sponge and causes rusting. They also make a better job of clearing the water from the window if you wind it down!
Good luck![frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
(not quite as good as the YouTube vid however!)
Following on from our look at door handles in September 2010, we now take a look at the rust situation. Do your doors have those tell-tale rust bubbles along the bottom or even large orange outlined holes? If you think the doors are OK, have a look underneath. The rust bug often lurks there and sometimes only emerges through the outer door skin when there is terminal damage to the door. It is often ok to cut out rusty bits and ‘graft’ in new steel in the damaged areas, but it is easy to miss other areas which are partially rusted which will emerge when you have painted it in the near future. If a job is worth doing… etc. It may be better to consider replacement of the entire lower panel(s).Jacky’s car had several bubbles appearing in the area of interest, so I had a go using a repair kit. The repair panel kits are available with the inner panel at about £25 and the outers at about £25-£30 depending on the model (2 or 4 door). They are actually not that difficult to fit, provided you take your time and make sure you check the panels for a good fit at each stage. Previous welding experience is recommended, however. You can, if you are really keen, get the entire door skin for the thick end of £200 each, but I have never felt the need to do one of these myself. If the door is that bad, you can find probably find a less rusty one at the next autojumble!
Whilst it is probably easier to do the repair with the door off the car, you may wish to leave the door shell on the car while you at least tack-weld the panel in position. In this way, you will be able to make sure you haven't induced any distortion and can check that the door still shuts properly! Also, I always clamp a piece of stout angle or square section to the bottom edge to prevent (or at least discourage) it from turning ‘banana’ shaped.
Start by laying the new outer panel over the door marking out about 12mm (1/2”) lower than the height of the new panel - which can then be ‘joggled’ with a step under the upper part of the remaining door skin, when you have cut away the old bit. The remainder of the old skin bottom has to be carefully removed bit by bit, particularly the folds around the edges and bottom. A dustpan and brush is very useful for the considerable quantity of rust and ‘compost’ that comes out of the door. The inner section of the door bottom can be purchased as repair panel, but if you are a bit tight (like me) you can make your own quite easily with a flat piece of steel with one fold to get the bottom edge. Don’t forget to replicate the drain holes, though. This plate can be easily welded to the inside edge of the door and also to the reinforcing panel at the front. The panel I used was galvanised (and you should grind off the galvanising where you are welding - to avoid toxic fumes). This should be done first and sealant applied to the joints.
When you fit the new outer panel, the most important bit (in my humble opinion) is the alignment of the curved bit in the middle with the curved bit in the rest of the door. The ends can be adjusted to suit, if necessary but if you don’t line up the curved swage top and bottom, the finished door is never going to look right. It’s a good idea not do too much welding at once, doing a little at a time to avoid heat build up. I always keep a damp cloth handy to control the spread of heat. I almost exclusively use my mig welder but I would not gas weld the top joint due to the potential for distortion. Mig welding is inherently cooler than gas welding. Distortion of the door skin is probably more of a worry than the bottom edge since there is a greater unsupported area to look out for. However, the ‘joggle’ should help to slightly increase the stiffness of the panel. The completed welding of the external panel is shown in the photographs and after final spraying. I would also recommend lead loading to finish the joint, but on this job I used a bit of good quality body filler.
Also recommended is the fitting of ‘lip’ type door window seals. We live close to some large Oak trees which shed a lot of leaves etc. My theory is that these stop a lot of the debris etc entering the door between the drop glass and the ‘felt’ strip, which collects in the area just repaired. This ‘compost’ then acts as a sponge and causes rusting. They also make a better job of clearing the water from the window if you wind it down!
Good luck![frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
Re: Door bottom repairs
Thanks a lot guys,
Both very helpful - I know what my next wet weather job is going to be!
Ian
Both very helpful - I know what my next wet weather job is going to be!
Ian
AOW68K 1971 van undergoing restoration
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Quick question moggalot, did you just plug weld the outer skin repair on then a skim of filler? Just in the process of this job, I've done the underside.
Cheers
Edd
Cheers
Edd
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Hi Edd
I continuously welded that one, obviously bit by bit to avoid heat build up. However I did another last week and plug welded at 50mm intervals. Made a better job, I think. Just used u pol 'd' filler to finish.
I continuously welded that one, obviously bit by bit to avoid heat build up. However I did another last week and plug welded at 50mm intervals. Made a better job, I think. Just used u pol 'd' filler to finish.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Brilliant, thanks for that. I've got to cut away the manky tin work infested metal first but I'll let you know how I get on. Here's the under side. Not amazing but it's having a skim of filler anyway.
Cheers!
Edd[frame][/frame]
Cheers!
Edd[frame][/frame]
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Also, a loosely related question:
The bolts were a nightmare to get off to remove the door, I'll be getting new ones and will be using copper slip on every bolt from now on, is there any brand of it you've used and would recommend?
Cheers!
Edd
The bolts were a nightmare to get off to remove the door, I'll be getting new ones and will be using copper slip on every bolt from now on, is there any brand of it you've used and would recommend?
Cheers!
Edd
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
No not really. I suppose a good quality one might be better. I guess it is more important to put something on it rather than nothing. If you have a 5/16 BSF tap, I would advise you run the through first, however.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
No I don't have one of those, does that make sure the thread is ok? How do I use it?
Cheers
Cheers
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Oooh and another question!!!!
You know the metal strip you weld on the bottom of the door that holds that seal in, is that completely necessary? I only ask because my doors have always had the metal channel but never the seal, I didn't know there was supposed to be one in there until I started this job!!!!
You know the metal strip you weld on the bottom of the door that holds that seal in, is that completely necessary? I only ask because my doors have always had the metal channel but never the seal, I didn't know there was supposed to be one in there until I started this job!!!!
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Any hints on getting the alignment better? This is with pushing the lip on the new panel under the remaining door skin, should I do away with the lip and butt weld it?[frame][/frame]
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
Re: Door bottom repairs
Edd
I'd weld on the metal channel / strip whilst you " have the welder out ".Drill a few holes in the strip and " blip " a few imitation
plugs welds , to fix it to the underside. Open up the channel with pliers if you want to get the welding nozzle in closer and repair / bend back afterwards. With a pair on new seals in situ, you'll notice the difference in wind noise and it will be a little cosier in the winter with no ( oops ...perhaps that ought to be " reduced " draughts ).
Outer repair panel, from the picture it looks as though at best the meeting edge is " flat " or at worst concave.The panel , with a decent joddle usually marries up well.
I think someone has squashed the very slight curve in the panel... e. g stood on it briefly, leant on it, had a heavy weight stored against it, etc, etc.
You need to re-introduce the curve ...between the door bulge ( front of car ) and the rear edge of the door.With panel removed ,bending it gently over your knees, covered by an old blanket or something might do it.Try it a little at a time and refit to test before doing some more.
Otherwise so long as you do your tack welding , at intervals with the two metal pieces pressed firmly together * ,it should produce a decent finish.
* old lumps of wooden offcuts underneath and heavy objects weighing down on top. Use some old bricks wrapped in
newspaper,old plastic milk cartons filled with water , whatever comes to hand.
If you have access to long reach welding clamps or a set of Cleko Fastners and pliers then it will be a doddle.
Good luck with it. Bob
I'd weld on the metal channel / strip whilst you " have the welder out ".Drill a few holes in the strip and " blip " a few imitation
plugs welds , to fix it to the underside. Open up the channel with pliers if you want to get the welding nozzle in closer and repair / bend back afterwards. With a pair on new seals in situ, you'll notice the difference in wind noise and it will be a little cosier in the winter with no ( oops ...perhaps that ought to be " reduced " draughts ).
Outer repair panel, from the picture it looks as though at best the meeting edge is " flat " or at worst concave.The panel , with a decent joddle usually marries up well.
I think someone has squashed the very slight curve in the panel... e. g stood on it briefly, leant on it, had a heavy weight stored against it, etc, etc.
You need to re-introduce the curve ...between the door bulge ( front of car ) and the rear edge of the door.With panel removed ,bending it gently over your knees, covered by an old blanket or something might do it.Try it a little at a time and refit to test before doing some more.
Otherwise so long as you do your tack welding , at intervals with the two metal pieces pressed firmly together * ,it should produce a decent finish.
* old lumps of wooden offcuts underneath and heavy objects weighing down on top. Use some old bricks wrapped in
newspaper,old plastic milk cartons filled with water , whatever comes to hand.
If you have access to long reach welding clamps or a set of Cleko Fastners and pliers then it will be a doddle.
Good luck with it. Bob
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Cheers Bob, I'll give that a go.
My concern with the seal channel is I'm not sure where exactly to weld it, and I'd read some posts on here that people have trouble shutting their doors without a hefty slam afterwards!
Not working on it until next week now so I'll keep you updated. Many thanks.
My concern with the seal channel is I'm not sure where exactly to weld it, and I'd read some posts on here that people have trouble shutting their doors without a hefty slam afterwards!
Not working on it until next week now so I'll keep you updated. Many thanks.
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
And treat those two impostors just the same'
Edd, 26, Devon.
Re: Door bottom repairs
Had a quick question my car has rust at the bottom of both rear doors have order the panels.my question is are there any giudes on how to dismantle the door taking out glass etc as i doubt it would be a good idea to weld when i still have windows in lol .any help woild be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Yes it is a good idea to strip the doors first since the glass is easily damaged. The rear doors come apart a bit easier than the fronts. You need to strip off the handles and door liner card from the inside, remove the lock (4 countersunk phillips screws) and the catch at the rear (4 round head phillips). Remove the winder. Undo the bolts which hold the frame to the body of the door (recessed I think) not forgetting the one at the bottom of the frame in the middle of the door. Slide the frame up leaving the glass in the door. You can then wiggle the glass out of the top of the door body. Its not particularly easy and the above is from memory only. It is mostly common sense, but can be a bit frustrating. Good luck
Re: Door bottom repairs
Thank you for the information and i will need luck real novice at cars only driving two years lol
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Re: Door bottom repairs
Great tutorial here ! I will have to do some door work, though hopefully will get away with just the underside of doors, at least they just let water run straight through at the mo !!
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Re: Door bottom repairs
A useful article, just tackling the same job, have a post in the bodywork section.