I used to love it but it's all over now.

[les]

Waxoyl at halfords £33 and repro panels prices rocketing! We've had the best days, glad my project is just about over, no more for me.

[moggyadventurer]

Must agree things are going up in price, but so are modern car panels and parts for that. I noticed the well known factors had bumped the price of panels recently with the hadrian/lmc isssues. They say it was due to availability!! not so sure.

Every winter i talk with my wife and family as to whether it is still worth it in comparison to a modern car.

I still do about 8000miles per year in her.

Lets be honest, Mogs for example are not really worth a great deal when you consider the time and effort placed. I rebuilt my moggy in the early 1980's when you could still get bmc parts from the austin dealerships as well as charles ware. (4k later plus two years graft) it was completed. I am guessing this amount could easily be exclipsed today to do the same job, yet my car has never been valued more than 4k (4door saloon). Yet my dad rebuilt a healey during the same period for 6k and its worth in excess of 15k today.

I will always love the humble morris minor, but to sum up...its certainly not the affordable hobby it once was.. and if I didn't use mine regularly would probably call it a day.

[jimyboyle]

I am in the beginning of restoring a Minor, My daily car is a Hyundai Santa Fe. Had it in for a service last Friday. In addition to the service they wanted to do the rear disks and pads as well as seal a drip from the sump, all it was going to cost was £1050.00. I told them to forget the disks and sealing so the bill only came to £575.00
The minor only cost me £430.00 and while the cost for the panels to restore it will come to about £550.00 I think the ongoing running costs will justify the rebuild.

[les]

I'm sure your running costs will justify your project, but i've found that the only way to achieve trouble (and expense) free minoring, unless you've got an unmolested rust free one,(impossible!) is to start from a dismantled car and rebuild, restoring each part as you assemble. That's where the trouble lays, doing that, costs big money today and together with quality issues makes restoring much more difficult than a few years ago. I'm out, as they say, but looking forward to just tinkering about on small stuff, where you don't have to lay on the floor!

[aupickup]

well i would not have another resto done thats for sure

[customjob]

Repair costs don't even go there. Recently had a water temp problem on my 55 plate Fiat Stilo, took it to an independant Fiat specialist. The car had to go on the computer to find the fault ,came back water temp sender £45.00 diagnostic £17.95 for the part £72.50 labour and then VAT on top £162.54. Took it back the next day same fault. Eventually convinced them it was the thermostat at fault. £115 for the thermostat three hours labour at £32 and vat i walked away told them i'd do it myself for less than half. Went down the motor factors £55 for the thermo £14.99 anti frezze hour and half later job done. Went back to this garage showed the service manager the receipts and showed him the part on the car. Got an appology a full refund on the previous work and offered a free MoT with my next service. Took the refund and told him where he could get off with his offer. I must admit the the thermostat is nothing like what they used to be this thing is a fully cast alloy unit six pipes in and out and no water way into the engine block. give me an a series anyday.

[robedney]

Maybe I should start shipping California moggies to the UK. Mine has lived here all its life and there's virtually no rust to speak of. All I've had to deal with is rust in the bottom of the gas tank. So, when you start with a rust-free car you're way, way ahead of the game. I wouldn't suggest moving here just yet, however, because we have no national health care, and I'm now paying -- as a relatively healthy 61 year old -- just over $800 US a month for coverage. I could buy a lot of moggies parts for that (and I'd rather)!

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

because we have no national health care, and I'm now paying -- as a relatively healthy 61 year old -- just over $800 US a month for coverage.

Reminds me just how completely different the two countries are. Socially, politically, etc. Britiain is a very crowded little island.

Do you have any old U.S. cars? My particular favourites are big Packards, Studebakers and late 30's stuff (in my opinion, American cars of the late 1930s to late 1940s are the best you ever made).

Regarding the cost and availability of parts, what do you think the situation will be like in 20+ years time? It's a worry for me being a young man trying to keep an old car running and future spares availability. That's why I use it daily - in 50 years' time I may not have that option.

[Neil MG]

les wrote
"...unless you've got an unmolested rust free one,(impossible!)..."

I managed to find an unmolested rust free Series II last year and have seen another couple for sale since then. Strangely, not what people are after...

[les]

I believe you ---thousands wouldn't!

[chrisd87]

Sadly I have to agree that the best days are probably behind us, for the car (and bike) enthusiast in general, and in particular the DIY classic car enthusiast. Our beloved cars are becoming older, rarer and a less visible presence on the road. Regulations are continuing to pile up. As commodity prices rise, so will the prices of the parts (and fluids) we need. As fuel prices rise (and modern cars continue to get more efficient), older cars will look increasingly thirsty by comparison. High scrap metal prices will no doubt finish off many a potential project car.

However, I refuse to give up! As others have pointed out, running a 'modern' is hardly cheap, and will suffer similar cost pressures to classic cars.

[irmscher]

China are buying all our metal and will sell it back at a premium in years to come and of an inferior quality

[les]

We're not as clever on the quality front as we used to be, sorry to say.

[chickenjohn]

You forgot to factor in the biggest cost of running a new car- depreciation!

Plus a classic car has historic (free) tax and cheaper insurance and if you keep the car standard spec DIY repairs and maintainance is possible, which is something you can't really do on a modern car. And look at the £100 per hour plus labour rates of modern car dealerships.

An overly gloomy summary in this thread, I think and not really warranted.

As for panel prices, the LMC/Hadiran price/supply problem is a temporary glitch and once ESM are up and running with panel manufacture, I'm sure prices will drop. Oh and judging by the panels ESM currently make, such as the rear chassis leg, the new ESM made panels will be of very high quality (better than Hadrian were) and British made.

I'm very optimistic for the future of the Morris Minor and classic cars in general, oh, and in case you hadn't noticed, values for Minors, even project cars, have been on the up recently and you now see a Minor on the TV just about every day, either in adverts or TV programmes. People admire our cars like never before.

Yes, there will be problems (ethanol for example) but these can be solved.

As for the cost and shortage of panels- make your own!

[M25VAN]

Bull Motif have been announcing panels becoming available again. Also ESM have a nice picture of panels being pressed on their website.
Get yourself a nice little project for a short while Les and then have another look at prices and quality. You may want to return to another resto....

[customjob]

Why are we backward at coming forward in the UK, Chicken John mentions up comomg problems with ethanol, my father has friends in the USA they are members of the Model T owners club they are already running there Model T on high % ethanol so if the yanks can do you it for there Model T's why the H*ll can't we the brits do it here. oh sorry forgot it britain we don't do petrochemicals or engineering anymore we sold out to banks and let them sail us into wind of dispair.

[LouiseM]

they are already running there Model T on high % ethanol so if the yanks can do you it for there Model T's why the H*ll can't we the brits do it here. oh sorry forgot it britain we don't do petrochemicals or engineering anymore we sold out to banks and let them sail us into wind of dispair.

It's not a case of nothing being done as a number of products are currently being trialled in the UK by the FHBVC. See this message on the home page or visit the FHBVC website for details:

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/index.php?page=545

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

they are already running there Model T on high % ethanol

the Model T was actually designed to run on ethanol originally.

[customjob]

Louise I didn't say nothing was being done as we are all aware something is, Jowett thankyou for clearing that up, what chance of we got if yanks thought of running on ethanol when they built the Model T, before long we'll be back in the redex days. Surely somebody can develop a plastic tank and i'm dam sure Burlens fuel systems could do ethanol resistent seals for the carbs, just a quirey about valves & seats but we over came that.

[moggydriver62]

I'm sorry guys but the T was not designed to run on ethanol
Ethanol is a problem here too. Here is the Ford T site.
Lots of discussion about it.

http://www.mtfca.com/