2-pack

[les]

Although this is about paint, rather than tack on the end of an existing thread, I thought I'd start another one. I've used cellulose for a number of years but this 2 pack paint is an unknown quantity to me regarding preparation and order of application etc. Would someone with the appropriate knowledge care to give me this information please? I've heard of base coat and lacquer but don't know about adding hardener or quantity of same, or indeed when and what to add it to. Assume I have a bare shell and want to paint it red, (for arguments sake) with 2 pack paint, how do I start, and in what order?

[bmcecosse]

Seriously -the health risks are too high for the amateur ..... and I'm not sure professionals are allowed to use it now either??

[moggydriver62]

Two stage paint is highly toxic .A very small amount breathed in can make you very ill
or even kill you. To spray it you have to have a seperate air supply.
VERY DANGEROUSE.
kenny.

[les]

Hang-on, calm down! I have absolutely no desire or intention of using this process. I have just never known the ins and outs of how this paint is applied, and thought I'd ask as much has been spoken about it here. Besides I'd have to be crazy to have missed all the past comments about its dangers.

[bmcecosse]

We know that - but others will come along later and read this - so the facts have to be laid bare. Personally - I hate the sort of 'false sheen' (dunno how else to describe it) a 2pack car has.

[les]

I hope this isn't going the same way as 'the secret cut out switch' and banned from being discussed.

[Dean]

Hi Les,

I did a google search which came up with this:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+to ... =firefox-a

[tysonn]

Not advocating its use.Each to his own.Merely giving an answer to the question.
Basically not that dissimilar to using celly.Different makers have different paint/hardener ratios.At the moment my etch primer is 1:1,primer filler 3:1,top coat 2:1.Thinners are for 2 pack(not celly) but you use hardly any(typically 10% versus 50% with celly)which is why you dont get the clouds of thinner mist evaporating into the air as you paint.You dont need anywhere near the same amount of coats(3-4 of gloss will equate to maybe 8-10 of celly gloss).Approx 15 mins flash off between coats(you can touch it after 15 minutes).
Gun cleaning is a must as soon as you finish as its a chemical reaction with 2 pack rather than air drying and the gun will be scrap if you leave it overnight.
Quite ok if you'd rather do all the base coats with 2k to give a really solid surface with less risk of the sinkage in filled/stoppered areas that arise with celly primer then using celly top coats.

[bmcecosse]

For goodness sake les - how can that switch be 'secret' now that you have mentioned it!!

[les]

Oh no, what have I done Roy! I expect there'll be a run on Tracker units now.
Thanks Dean and Tyson, I'm making notes from your info.
Couple of points---10% thinners for etch, 10% for primer, and 10% for top?
How long before moving from etch to primer to top?
Could you explain more about base coat and your last sentence? Not fully grasped that yet ( presume base coat is the colour?)
Where does lacquer come into play? Is that 2 pack as well?
How long have you got after adding the hardener?

[kennatt]

I think what hes saying is primer as base coat. I have used 2pack outside with a good mask, and a gravity fed High volume low pressure gun which produces very little misting ,but only primer ,hate the look of it on top coat on old cars.the benefit of 2pack primer is that it dosen't shrink into filled areas like celly primer. So my use is limited to those area I use it just to cover any filled area .then when dry(Takes a lot longer than celly primer without heat) I flat that area down and primer the whole panel with celly primer saves a lot of work and limits my exposure to a level that I am happy with ,Base coat and laquer is not limited to 2 pack its what used to be called clear over base in celly.Its a cheap way of getting a high shine without loads of top coats. Basically the base coat has no laquer in it and drys to a dull finish,so a quick blow over,as if you were just doing a dust coat not trying to get it to flow out then when dry two or three coats of clear on top give a high shine and hard finish that never needs polishing up. The problem with it is that you must get the base coat perfect because once the clear goes on top every tiny fault, spec of dust , shows up and you can't rub it out because its covered by the clear even if you see a fault in the base coat you need to flat the whole panel and respray because small areas of corrective work will also show up once the clear goes on . Metalics are even worse to do because you often get faults in it even from just altering the angle of the gun.The pro booths are all now using water based paint but needs heat,it will air dry but takes too long risking contamination from dust Ironically they use it because regs say its safer than celly or 2 pack but guess what......when dry it then needs to be sealed with a clear top coat which ..... yes you've got it is a 2 pack laquer Mad EU regulation.

[tysonn]

Well as I said the manufacturers give guidelines for the amount of thinners to add.If the weathers warm the paint will flow better anyway so possibly less thinner needed.Its like anything else,doing it will give you the experience to adjust accordingly,you can get the basics of whats involved from the internet or books but nothing teaches you better than actual experience.The etch primer bites into bare metal to give a key and will be dry enough to be able to use primer over in 15 minutes.Sorry in my last sentence my refence to "base coat" meant the primer coat.The base for your top coat.If you would rather use celly for the gloss finish because you think it looks more "realistic"(although this just isnt true,I would challenge anybody to tell the difference as long as the 2k top coat has been wet flatted with 1200 then machined)then you can use 2k for all pre surface coats then celly gloss.As kennat says lacquer is used as part of a 2 stage process used on top of a flat base coat of colour.Using this type of finish on a moggy definitely would look out of place so forget about it.Not sure about how long you have after mixing up the paint but certainly more than long enough to do whatever youre doing.If I am putting on 4 coats it probably takes 5 mins to spray a coat,leave it for 15 mins to go for a fag,another coat(5 mins),another fag break/flashoff etc x 4.Thats well over an hour and no sign of it setting in the gun.An associated thought is to have some panels ready for paint that you arent planning to do in that session just in case youre calculations are out and you have paint left in the gun.Rather than throw it out you can use it on one of these panels.I don't paint a whole car at once.I have a double garage but its not easy to get around a car and its easier(although more time and material consuming)to paint for example the doors,then the roof,then the front panels etc masking appropriately where necessary.

[LouiseM]

I hope this isn't going the same way as 'the secret cut out switch' and banned from being discussed.

It isn't 'banned' from being discussed Les, people are just asked to be sensible about the content of their posts. Nothing wrong in making new owners aware that there are various steps they can take to protect their car from theft. Trouble is, as has happened in the past, you then get people posting up photos to show what the switch looks like, posts telling people where they are commonly fitted and posts explaining how the switch can be by-passed Not surprisingly, those with switches fitted aren't happy about these details being posted on a public forum.

With regards to 2 pack, as BMC has already pointed out although you may have seen all the previous posts here regarding the dangers of using this others might not have so asking for, or posting, a 'step by step' guide in how to paint your Minor using 2 pack - without making any mention of the fact that it can kill you - might result in people thinking that they'll give it a go. This isn't something that should be attempted by people at home - it needs to be carried out professionally using the appropriate safety equipment. Public safety announcement over - carry on

[tysonn]

Well I did say in an earlier response that I wasnt advocating or recommending the use of 2 pack.I was merely trying to pass on my experience as an answer to the OPs original question.If someone had asked how to use a mig welder the response shouldnt have to include the dangers of doing it without a mask and suitable clothing etc.I would have expected this to be a matter of common sense.

[LouiseM]

If someone had asked how to use a mig welder the response shouldnt have to include the dangers of doing it without a mask and suitable clothing etc.I would have expected this to be a matter of common sense.

Unfortunately you only need to browse through some of the posts here and on other internet discussion forums to see that common sense sometimes isn't so 'common' We already have a ‘sticky’ here regarding the dangers of grinding without using eye protection etc and some would say it is just common sense and doesn’t need spelling out but there are quite a few posts from members listing the various injuries they’ve received by not taking suitable safety precautions: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16741

As already stated, with something as dangerous as using 2 pack paint then it's a good idea to spell out the risks for the benefit of those who haven't read earlier posts but if I get some spare time over the weekend I'll compose a 2 pack 'sticky' for this forum to save people having to repeat the dangers every time it gets raised.

[tysonn]

LOL I do see your point.Hope nobody reading my previous post thinks they have to take up smoking so they can take the fag break while the paint flashes off.There are excellent guidelines for painting/welding etc available at www.mig-welding.co.uk.

[les]

Louise I wasn't criticising the point about vehicle security and understand the risks involved, and the reluctance to discuss in detail, however I was getting the feeling the same reluctance over 2 pack might prevail, dispite the numerous warnings. (Maybe 'banning was ott ) . A sticky is a thought, as you suggest.
Thank-you all for the information regarding 2 pack, It was good of you to take time out to explain.
Can't get on with these fags though!