Traveller window woes

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Napoleon Boot
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Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:45 pm

The sunny weather arrived round my way at the weekend, so I decided to tackle the grotty, mossy sliding window channels in my Traveller.

I’d read loads of old threads in advance and got all the bits I needed. The old rusty channels fell apart in my hands and the glass came out easily enough.

After drilling drainage holes (there weren’t any) and treating the wood with wet rot hardener and Cuprinol, I just had to slot the windows back in, which by all accounts was a piece of cake.

Agghh!

With the new chrome edged runner slotted on the bottom of the outer window, it proved impossible to fit the glass back in from the inside. I’d slotted it in to the upper runner at a slight angle, but the bottom was about 1 or 2 mm too deep to push home. I tried the more flexible runner, which I’d bought for the inner glass, but had exactly the same problem.

The windows were always a bit tight- I’d assumed they were hard to open because of the decayed runners. All I can think is that the waist rail, not being original, is slightly too high, and the previous fix was a bit of a bodge (the rear window wouldn’t completely close).

My only plan is to sand inside of the waist rail down until I can squeeze the glass in. Does this sound sensible, or is there a better solution that I’m missing?

Thanks in advance,
Seb

panky
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby panky » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:16 pm

Try putting the runner on the glass first then see if it will push over the waist rail into the slot. I'm sure this is what I had to do with the rearmost glass, then nailed the runner in where I could get to it before fitting the front glass.
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simmitc
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby simmitc » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:41 pm

If I'm reading correctly, that's exactly what he tried.

If you do sand down the rail, then make sure that the routed channels in the wood along the length of the rail are still there as they conduct the water to the (new) drainage holes. without the channels, the water is liable to overflow into the car, no matter how much sealant you add to the capping.

SteveClem
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby SteveClem » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:24 pm

If your car sits outside it may be that the wood is slightly swollen after the recent damp weather. Being a natural material it will move and distort with humidity changes. If you are only a mil or two away let's hope that the forecast good weather will help your wood move that critical fraction and give you enough space.

Napoleon Boot
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:54 pm

Thanks all for your thoughts. Yep, Panky, I was putting the lower runner onto the glass before trying to slide it into place, but it was just too tight. Thinking about it, the Cuprinol may have made the wood swell slightly; hopefully a few sunny days may have made the wood shrink back again. If not, I'll sand it down, the drainage grooves are really deep and I reckon there's only a mil or so in it.
Another sunny day tomorrow so I'm going to have another crack at it!

Seb

panky
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby panky » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:47 pm

Ah sorry, I misread your explanation. Hopefully it will dry out enough but a quick blast with the sander should sort it if it doesn't
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:10 pm

Well, I took a day off today and tried to get to grips with these flipping windows.
To cut a long story short, I spent six hours planing and sanding the waist rail, and the windows *still* wouldn't fit. The wood's dry and not warped; it just seems that the dimensions are off as it's not the original wood and doesn't seem to have come from one of the regular suppliers.

I've finally got to a point where the glass and lower runner can just about be levered into position, so I'm happy with that and have given it a few coats of Cuprinol 5*; at the weekend when it's dry I'll give it a few coats of Osmo oil and then fix the windows in properly, copper nails, black sealant etc.

I've attached a couple of photos of the waist rail in case it helps anyone in future. As you can see, there's no capping piece, the door hinge, seat bolt etc are screwed directly into a single solid piece of wood which has two drainage grooves routed in the top (but no holes). All the instructions I've read seem to suggest there should be a separate capping piece with a seal somewhere (I bought a couple of these foamy strips for the job from Charles Ware but can't see for the life of me where they would go!)

Seb
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simmitc
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby simmitc » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:36 pm

The window catch is definitely home made and not original! There should be a black piece of metal attached to the capping that screws to the inside of the waist rail. The seat support bracket and rear door stay then screw to the capping piece. The capping finishes roughly level with the top of the inner window channel and carries sealant; and also covers the top of the trim panels. I'll see if I can post a photo for you tomorrow unless someone else can beat me to it...

panky
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby panky » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:43 pm

Hope this helps

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cococola
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby cococola » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:55 am

Well done Panky :D Im wondering if the sliding grooves need "digging out" rather than just the tops plained looking at the photos just to help slot the runners in for when the glass slides?
My traveller before the wood was replaced had some home made plastic runners that worked reasonably well, just another thought :)
Morris Minors..... such fun :D

Napoleon Boot
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:47 pm

Thanks for those photos Panky, that really helps.

So it seems that I am missing a capping piece; I think the replacement waist rail has been made so that it's 'all-in-one' so to speak, as the bolts on the rear seat line up and they wouldn't if there wa an additional layer of wood each side.

The drainage channels are too narrow for the sliding channels to fit inside- they're only about 1/4 inch across, whereas the runners are double this, so they just sit on top. Is this correct? Always hard to tell by looking at photos!

I've drawn a rough sketch of the cross section of my waist rail (left) and what I assume is the correct arrangement (on the right).

Is this correct? Wish I had another Traveller nearby to compare it with!

Seb

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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:53 pm

Sketch attached this time:
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simmitc
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby simmitc » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:40 pm

That looks about right. The drainage channels are only about 1/4 inch across and the window channels do sit on top.
Wish I had another Traveller nearby to compare it with!
Wherabouts are you, there's bound to be one not too far away.

Napoleon Boot
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:16 pm

Thanks simmitc, glad to know I'm on the right lines!
I'll post some photos once it's all finished and looking shipshape this weekend :lol:
Wherabouts are you, there's bound to be one not too far away.
I've not seen a single Minor in the wild since I got mine, Traveller or otherwise - I was surprised 'cos they seemed to be everywhere a few years ago, along with classic Beetles and Minis etc... now I've got a vintage car I'm constantly looking out everywhere for others. Quite a few VW buses and Triumphs near me though. I'm in North London - once I've got mine in a more presentable state I'll pop along to a local MMOC meeting.

Seb

pgp001
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby pgp001 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:55 pm

You will certainly need the capping piece otherwise water is guaranteed to pour into the car when it rains.
It needs a layer of sealer between it and the waist rail to stop the water getting between them, the water should run under the window sliders and along the grooves and the exit through the holes on the outside of the car.

I have added an extra rubber lip seal to the rearmost sliding windows, this helps shed a lot of water.

See here for details
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68320

Phil

Napoleon Boot
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:29 am

Thanks Phil,

In that case it sounds like I'll need to find some capping pieces after all. Would anyone mind measuring and letting me know how tall and how thick these need to be? New ones from CW will cost me nearly £80 which seems like a lot for a couple of bits of non-structural wood! At some point the woodwork will all need replacing so I'd rather not splash out more than I need to yet. I can work out the length of course...

I'd seen that thread about the rubber lip seals and plan to do that, seems like an excellent precaution and looks neat as well.

Seb

pgp001
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby pgp001 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:30 pm

Seb

Why don't you make it to the original drawings ?
I will send you a PM with details of where to find them.

Phil

SteveClem
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby SteveClem » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:18 pm

Did you get the glass in ok?

Napoleon Boot
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby Napoleon Boot » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:49 pm

Well it took considerably longer than planned, but I got there in the end!

Having got the rusty old runners out, and cleaned out all the muck, I found a little bit of soft wood which needed treating. Then it needed Cuprinoling and then a few coats of Osmo oil... so to cut a long story short I ended up sanding down all the woodwork, bleaching it and oiling the lot.

It's not perfect, I would have bleached it a few more times to get all the dark marks out, but my moggie lives outdoors and I needed to get the oil back on before the rain came!

When it came to getting the windows back in, the nearside needed a bit of planing down before I could get the outer window in, but luckily the driver's side slid in straight away. Drilled drainage holes, nailed the runners in with copperised nails and finished off with caulking this afternoon. Both windows now slide easily and water isn't getting in.

I've started on the next job now, the paintwork. At the moment it's a flaky mess of brushed on paint which is rapidly coming off, and some rusty scratches. I've got some Rustoleum Combicolor and am about to start to sand down and give it a few coats, I'll start another thread to show how I get on...

Seb
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Re: Traveller window woes

Postby pgp001 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:51 pm

It looks like you have original wood on your car, certainly the rear corner posts as they are laminated.

Phil


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