Door Fit

Discuss Bodywork problems here.
alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:42 pm

The door is generally a good fit all around sides and the bottom with equal gaps.From inside the car sitting in the passenger seat, the window frame at the front (above the hinge) is correct however the top edge gets closer to the door jam until it touches the lip where the seal fits (above the door lock)
I think I’m going to try a bit of “manipulation” to bend it out to try an even it out

ManyMinors
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Re: Door Fit

Postby ManyMinors » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:57 pm

I think that is definitely worth a try. It is possible that the frame is a bit bent somewhere. You did loosen ALL the fixings of the frame to the door when you tried to adjust it did you? There are 3 down the back edge :wink:

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:10 pm

Yep
There the only ones I loosened ( you need to open the door to gain access )
Are there other’s ?

kennatt
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Re: Door Fit

Postby kennatt » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:18 pm

if you manipulate the door wind the window down first :o

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:21 pm

👌

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Fri May 01, 2020 2:17 pm

I wish I’d never started...
So, I’m playing with the fit of the doors
I’ve got a problem now with the gaps etc
I fitted shims to the lower hinge to even out the gap where the door meets the front wing
What I would like to do is move the door forwards towards the front of the car without resorting to a large hammer , grinder and welder
There are no shims in the top hinge however it is to close to the b pillar
I don’t think it can be done
What do you think ?
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ColinChandler
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Re: Door Fit

Postby ColinChandler » Fri May 01, 2020 8:02 pm

Evening all,
You might not like my response but I had similar door problems when I got my car back from some welding. I went round and round in circles trying to get things to fit nicely but without much luck.
I ended up slackening the front wing fixings and pulling the wing forward. It gave me room to get the door to B pillar gap right. Then I added the window frame and then aligned it all some more. With the draught excluder trim off the body's door frame, I tweaked the trim's mounting flange to even the gap between it and the door all around the aperture. Then it was a case of re-aligning the front wing with the door. It was a long process of little steps and I also "wished I hadn't started."
I think a lot of people regard the wing as a fixture but the door is the most important bit. The wing will go where its put.
Good luck. Colin.

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Fri May 01, 2020 8:37 pm

☹️
But
Is there anyway to move the door away (forward) from the B pillar ??

don58van
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Re: Door Fit

Postby don58van » Sat May 02, 2020 12:48 am

Is there anyway to move the door away (forward) from the B pillar ??
Yes!! But its rather crude. It simply involves pushing the door hinge area on the A-pillar forward a little. :o

Somewhere, I have seen an expert guide on how to go about it. Stay tuned.

Don

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 3:09 am

I’m all ears

kennatt
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Re: Door Fit

Postby kennatt » Sat May 02, 2020 7:51 am

Yes thought the gaps looked strange,again do you know the history of the car,what you have is a classic case of the sill sections being removed and re fitted,without bracing of the frame,on welding the sill back on,the frame at the bottom shortens and the gaps change.
There is very little adjustment available other than the shims,but as you've found shim one and the other is now out.If you measure the gap at the bottom and at the waist you may be able to confirm or not,the above.
As already said fit the door to match the b pillar then the wing can be adjusted,by opening out the bolt holes,to fit the front of the door.
The hinges can be pushed out by making up a body jack with pipes and a scissor jack and blocks of wood but be warned you could cause more problems than you have now. For instance,if the problem is from a re built sill area and the welding is not up to standard you could split the welds. Or ( Hope not the car looks to be in good condition so unlikely) if the sill area is rotten cause the sill to fail. Also if you push too far impossible to pull it back in :o
Jacking the body would be my last resort
If I were you I would return the door to original state ,take the rubber off the frame and with a hammer knock the flange inwards till the top of the window frame fits. Good luck.

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 8:44 am

First thing to note is I didn’t realise the wings could be adjusted
Secondly I would be worried that if you jack it out the B pillar may move. I guess you would spread the load on the B pillar side and have point contact on the hinge you want to move ??
Also what gap is normal between B pillar and door
Cheers

philthehill
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Re: Door Fit

Postby philthehill » Sat May 02, 2020 9:15 am

As regards the gap between door and 'B' Post. My own Minor has a gap of 1/8" from top to bottom. They are the original doors, sill panels, hinges and 'B' Post.


don58van
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Re: Door Fit

Postby don58van » Sat May 02, 2020 10:07 am

I haven't yet found the expert advice I mentioned in my post above -- but in the meantime here is something to consider.
Some owners have reported great results by using shims behind the A-pillar hinges (which seems counter-intuitive) but here is the trick -- you only put shims behind the inner bolts of the hinge(s). Those who advocate this approach say that this swings the hinge pivot axis a little forward, thus moving the door forward.

As it is completely and easily reversible, it has to be worth a try.

The other methods I am aware of involve big blocks of wood, big hammers and jacks to push the immediate area of the A-pillar hinge(s) slightly forward. They do not involve thrusting the whole pillar forward which is necessary sometimes but has structural implications such as torn or broken welds.

I believe that the block and hammer technique was standard practice when assembling Nuffield/BMC/Leyland cars here in Australia (and no doubt elsewhere too).

Don

philthehill
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Re: Door Fit

Postby philthehill » Sat May 02, 2020 10:20 am

Don
You are right about the block of wood adjustment technique.
BMC here in the UK used to employ a fettler on the production line purely to adjust the doors. It was quite a skilled job as you had to know were to place your wood and how much pressure to apply and in what direction to apply it.
Quite often during the predelivery inspection at the BMC garage where I worked the wood would be used to adjust the door to get it right.
If I remember correctly there is a video of the BMC production line and the fettler can be seen adjusting or fettling the doors.
Happy days. :D


don58van
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Re: Door Fit

Postby don58van » Sat May 02, 2020 10:40 am

the fettler can be seen adjusting or fettling the doors
Thanks for that Phil

I would like to see the fettler at work. Do you know if the footage is on the web?

Keep well
Don

philthehill
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Re: Door Fit

Postby philthehill » Sat May 02, 2020 11:19 am

Don
This door fettling thing came up oh here some time ago - the video mention was put up as a link and there was a short clip of the BMC production line with the fettler adjusting the doors with his wooden stick. It must be somewhere on the web. If I find it I will post up a link.
Keep well and safe.
Phil


alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 11:25 am

don58van wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:07 am
I haven't yet found the expert advice I mentioned in my post above -- but in the meantime here is something to consider.
Some owners have reported great results by using shims behind the A-pillar hinges (which seems counter-intuitive) but here is the trick -- you only put shims behind the inner bolts of the hinge(s). Those who advocate this approach say that this swings the hinge pivot axis a little forward, thus moving the door forward.

As it is completely and easily reversible, it has to be worth a try.


Don
Thanks but I’m struggling to understand the above.
Are we saying put the bolt through the shim , then through the hinge, then into the A pillar Don ?

Phil, Don
When using the “block of wood/ lump hammer method” ( it shall always now be known as such) is the door still fitted whilst the adjustment is taking place ??

Richie B
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Re: Door Fit

Postby Richie B » Sat May 02, 2020 11:56 am

Thanks for all the posts on this subject folks. I was thinking Oh no why me!! Now I know im not alone :D
I have completed the replacement work on lefthand side of "Clarence". Now starting on the right but first job is refit door and both wings so I can get alignement correct. The door has always been out of line (I bought the car in Sep 2018) Im inclined towards the "Fettling" as per factory. I agree with trying the shim fitted on in inner side of hinge. I used this method many times as a carpenter to align wooden doors. This forms a wedge shape (exagerated) which moves the pivot point of the hinge pin.
Ill report back in couple of days when I get back in the garage.
Love these posts, they're so encouraging.

don58van
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Re: Door Fit

Postby don58van » Sat May 02, 2020 12:24 pm

Are we saying put the bolt through the shim , then through the hinge, then into the A pillar Don ?
I have to admit that I have never seen or tried this adjustment. The information I have provided is based on a post on an Australian Minor website. The information provided there was somewhat vague.

Having said all that...

The only way I can see this working is where a shim is placed between the hinge and the A-pillar, but only under the inner bolt(s) so that the hinge plate is very slightly rotated wrt the pillar. I hope I haven't thrown you a red herring. Those who tried it seemed to be very pleased.

Other methods I remember seeing on that site over the decades include 1) opening the door and jacking the outer edge to move the upper hinge forward and/or the lower hinge back (which raises the door, 2) with the door open, putting a small wooden block in the hinge and gently pushing the door as if closing it which should push the hinge forward on the A-pillar.

I guess the point is, an A-pillar can be slightly bent in or out locally where the hinges are mounted. And far from being an act of butchery, it is the standard technique used in the factories to make the doors fit correctly.

Obviously, as Phil has already flagged, these types of adjustments need to be undertaken judiciously.

Don


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