Door Fit

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alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 12:42 pm

I agree with trying the shim fitted on in inner side of hinge. I used this method many times as a carpenter to align wooden doors. This forms a wedge shape (exagerated) which moves the pivot point of the hinge pin.

[/quote]

Ritchie, Don
There must be something in this as you are both saying the same thing but I don’t understand what it is ☹️🤔
The shims I have are from ESM and are the exact same shape as the lower hinge
It seems obvious where the are fitted ( between the A pillar and the hinge however that can only move the door towards the rear of the car surely
If you fit the shim between the bolt and the hinge I can’t see it having any effect at all
Remember I need to make the door move towards the front wing to get an 1/8” gap between door and B pillar
Any chance of a sketch of what you both mean ?
I really appreciate your interest

philthehill
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Re: Door Fit

Postby philthehill » Sat May 02, 2020 1:50 pm

To fettle with a piece of wood - to raise the door …..piece of wood between the sill and the rear lower edge of door - to move forward.....piece of wood between rear edge of door and 'B' Post.
You have to do the job carefully otherwise you can over do it.


alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 2:49 pm

Phil
I need to move the door forward towards the front wing

pgp001
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Re: Door Fit

Postby pgp001 » Sat May 02, 2020 2:57 pm

If you pack under the inner ends of the hinge, the hinge will effectively rock around the outer bolts, therefore if the inner end of the hinge is moving away from the A post, the hinge pin must be moving towards it.
I have not tried this myself but it sounds as though it is worth having a go, how much forwards movement you will gain I dont know, but it will not be much, maybe just enough though.

I wonder if your hinges might have been strained and bent slightly out of shape ?

Phil

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 3:22 pm

Again I don’t understand
To me if you add anything anywhere between the hinge and the A pillar I will be moving the door in the wrong direction
The door to B pillar line is parallel but to close
I need to move the door forward towards the wing
If I “rock it” in any way i will lose the parallel line

I think what Philthehill was saying is lever the door forward using a piece of wood say a meter long using the B post/rear edge of the door as a fulcrum
This I can understand but I’m concerned about paint damage to the door edge( I may need to protect with cloth )
I thought initially I was advised to firmly hit the hinges with a piece of wood and large hammer where it bolts to the A pillar.
Have I interpreted the advice correctly gents ?
Last edited by alawrence10360 on Sat May 02, 2020 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

philthehill
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Re: Door Fit

Postby philthehill » Sat May 02, 2020 3:42 pm

If you put a shim between the inner hinge bolts and the 'A' post (but in reality the hinge mount panel) the outer edge (hinge pin) of the hinge will move forward in an arc around the outer bolts. If you shim the same top and bottom the rear edge of the door will remain parallel to the 'B' Post.

You have it in one.

Paint damage to the edge of the door may be consequence of trying to fit the door anyway.


alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm

philthehill wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:42 pm
If you put a shim between the inner hinge bolts and the 'A' post (but in reality the hinge mount panel) the outer edge (hinge pin) of the hinge will move forward in an arc around the outer bolts. If you shim the same top and bottom the rear edge of the door will remain parallel to the 'B' Post.
So
I don’t use the shim as supplied
I need to cut the shim longitudinally
Shim the inner bolts only on both hinges
Is that right ?
The lower hinge only has 3 bolts and although not in a straight line there isn’t really an inner/outer
Attachments
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1ACED42B-BCF3-45F0-9F23-0DF73EC971E6.png (675.71 KiB) Viewed 478 times
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48A16032-9653-4656-AAEB-FCEC22D86AF7.png (728.04 KiB) Viewed 478 times

kennatt
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Re: Door Fit

Postby kennatt » Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm

have you any wear in the hinge pins by any chance ,open door and lift door from rear to check for any movement,if the pins are worn then you will never get the door to fit exactly

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 4:37 pm

No
The hinges are fine

Richie B
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Re: Door Fit

Postby Richie B » Sat May 02, 2020 6:24 pm

As a temporary try out you could use a washer on inner edge to avoid cutting shims

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sat May 02, 2020 6:27 pm

Yep
Gonna try that

don58van
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Re: Door Fit

Postby don58van » Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 pm

As a temporary try out you could use a washer on inner edge to avoid cutting shims
Yes, washers between the hinge and the A-pillar -- but only at the inner end -- is the way to go.

I am sorry that I wasn't clear with my previous explanations. You don't want a full shim as supplied by ESM and others. As you have noted, this can only move the whole door back -- which is exactly what you don't want. You only want to shim under the inner ends of the hinges. If the theory works, this will swing the hinge pivot points forward.

Don

ColinChandler
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Re: Door Fit

Postby ColinChandler » Sun May 03, 2020 10:47 am

If that doesn't give you enough extra gap, I went a stage further and filed material off the hinges themselves. I was loath to push and shove the body about too much as it was all freshly painted so reckoned that if I made a mess of the hinges, it would be cheaper to buy some more rather than try to get the body sorted out. Anyway, the hinges are a pretty thick casting so if you were to open them out and put them "flat" in a vice, you could file/angle grind material off the faces that mate with the bodywork. if you take a mm off all over, you'll gain 2mm overall when the door is shut. Also you only need to do it to the bottom hinge if you need extra clearance at the bottom of the door.
Also, another thing I found with one of my hinges that might be worth checking on yours was that it had a spacer already spot welded onto one of the flanges. I posted on here to ask and it seems it could be a factory way of using the same hinge on different cars or to still use the hinges if they had been wrongly machined. Drilling out the welds and removing it saved me some work there.
Good luck.

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sun May 03, 2020 1:06 pm

Well it has improved things with the washers so thanks
I still have an issue with the door seal particularly around the door latch area close to the corner of the rear window
If I remove this it closes easily and I can see the seal is very squashed in this area
I think it has had a repair in this area
I need to grind this out and set it back a little but that’s a job for the future
I would like to adjust the wing now but I’m a little concerned that it will affect the paintwork where it joins any other panels
I did ask how many bolts and where they are on another thread but no response yet
I can see 4 in the engine bay but would like to know the exact number

kennatt
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Re: Door Fit

Postby kennatt » Sun May 03, 2020 1:22 pm

from memory I think there are three to the front panel and three on the inner under wheel arch to A post and the ones on top. and two from wing to front skirt. Think that it,but that's where they are so should be able to see them

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sun May 03, 2020 3:20 pm

Thanks
I’ve had a look at some pics on google but nothing is very clear
I could do with an exploded view really
My eyes aren’t that good
I don’t want to leave one in and start trying to move it

mobylette
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Re: Door Fit

Postby mobylette » Sun May 03, 2020 4:30 pm

Have a look at this video, around 15 minutes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lc0b7Fw6cs

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sun May 03, 2020 5:23 pm

That’s great
I counted 7 bolts
I’m not sure how much wiggle room that’s going to give me

pgp001
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Re: Door Fit

Postby pgp001 » Sun May 03, 2020 6:36 pm

Have you got a copy of AKD3542, that shows some good exploded views, and does indeed show 7 screws per side.

Available from the "other" website.
https://www.morrisminorowners.co.uk/vie ... 83&t=13202

Phil

alawrence10360
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Re: Door Fit

Postby alawrence10360 » Sun May 03, 2020 7:23 pm

That’s a great document . As you said..
Page 136 (bc2) shows:
item 3 ( 14 off )
Item 17 (24 off)
I’m thinking item 3 are the bolts that hold the wing with 7 each side
Not sure what item 17 is. I haven’t looked at the vehicle yet


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