Tube or Tubeless - that is the question

[Dryad]

I am about to purchase four new tyres for my Minor 1000. Should I use innertubes or go tubeless? I'm thinking of getting a set of Toyo tyres from Bull Motif - has anyone used these tubeless?

[Biggles1957]

I run my traveller on 155 Toyo's - absolutely brilliant in all weather conditions. They seem to be fine tubeless - I haven't had any problems at all and they've been on two and a half years now. Monty is my daily transport too. 32psi all round

[bmcecosse]

Try without tubes - but carry a spare tube and levers just in case. 155 are too wide for standard rims (but perfect for 4.5" rims) - the car will feel much less 'wobbly' on 145 tyres.

[beero]

Tubeless was fine for mine but the wheels had been freshly sandblasted and painted. If you have rust where the tyre seals you may have a problem but I believe the tyre fitters can put a sealant around the rim to help seal.

[lambrettalad]

Tyres with tubes go down much quicker than tubeless,when punctured. A nail often produces a slow puncture,much safer

[Dryad]

This is all very useful information - thanks everyone! Tubeless it is, then.

[philthehill]

You should NEVER use a wheel rim that was designed for a tubed tyre with a tubeless tyre no matter what others say or have experianced.
There is a good chance that a tubless tyre with low air pressure fitted to a tubed rim could come away from the rim and loose all air pressure suddenly and with catastrophic consequenses.
Also most if not all tubed rims do not have the tubeless tyre safety retaining ring. That safety ring is there for good purpose.
Air can leak out from a rim to centre weld or rim to centre rivet over time without you realising it until it is too late.
If you have an accident and it is proven that the fitting of the wrong tyres was the cause or contributed to the accident you may be in trouble with the law and not withstanding what your insurance company would say.
Please use the right combination of rim and tyre for your and others safety.

[JPX877J]

We use 155 Toyo's on our minor ('68 2 door) and they are great!

[bmcecosse]

Almost every Minor on the road is running tubless tyres - as they are designed to be used - without tubes. Yes - the old rims don't have the safety ledges of modern wheels, but in reality it's not a problem. And tyre manufacturers advise NOT to put tubes inside tubless tyres - the ribbed internal pattern (from the bladder during curing) can rub through the tube causing punctures.....
I too have run 155 tyres on standard rims - and I can assure that the car handles better and is less wobbly on 145 tyres on the standard narrow rims. Of course the 155 tyres are great when fitted to the wider 4.5J rims. It's horses for courses.

[Dryad]

And tyre manufacturers advise NOT to put tubes inside tubless tyres - the ribbed internal pattern (from the bladder during curing) can rub through the tube causing punctures.....

That's certainly true. When I bought my Minor 3 years ago it had been fitted (by the previous owner) with two new Bridgestone tyres and inner tubes on the front, and I ended up having 3 punctures in four months. I replaced them both with a couple of spare wheels I had, fitted with tyres without inner tubes, and they're still on the car three years later.

[aupickup]

i have been running without tubes formany year and many miles and no problems
my tyre fitter will not fit tubes to tubeless tyres

[dalebrignall]

ive never had any problems

[philthehill]

Whilst fitting tubeless tyres to tubed rims seems to work as experianced by many and as referred to in the above posts that does not make it right and is no excuse when things go wrong. I agree that tubes should not be fitted into tubless tyres.

[bmcecosse]

So - what do you suggest then Phil? Every Minor to run around on alloy wheels with bead retaining ledges? I doubt there are any 'tube type' tyres out there these days to suit Minor steel wheels....... And - does having a tube really make the wheel/tyre situation any safer? Tubes tend to go down very very quickly when punctured - tubeless much more slowly -surely a safer mode of deflation?

[philthehill]

You have to ask yourself would the reasons given above however genuine for fitting tubeless tyres to a wheel that was designed only for tubed tyres stand up in a court of law if it was suggested/proved that the fitting of the wrong type of tyre to a wheel rim was a contributor to an accident. I do not think that the reasons given above would hold much sway as you knowingly fitted the wrong tyres to the wrong rims. Persons who fitted the tyres for you would/may also become vicariously liable (Vicarious liability is a much banded phrase in legal circles these day and cannot be ignored)
It would be good to hear opinion from the lawyers amongst us and from insurance representitives.
I do not have an answer to this problem but I would not like a member of the MMOC or any other person to become part of a prosecution/test case regarding this matter.

[bmcecosse]

The Minor wheels are a period feature - ALL wheels of that era were to that design. Only later did bead retaining ledges come in to being - not specifically to retain tubeless tyres, but as a general safety improvement. Also with tubless tyres - these were introduced quite independently of bead retainers - one does not depend on the other. So running tubeless tyres on Minor wheels is no less safe than running tubed tyres on the same wheels. Quite the opposite !! Could spread the arguement (ridiculously of course) to say that driving a Minor without anti-lock braking could contribute to an accident. Should we now all fit anti-lock units ??? But anyone who is concerned about the wheels can always shell out for a new set of the 4.5" wheels which DO have bead retainers. Not an inexpensive purchase of course - but what price safety may be the view, and allows use of the better 155 tyres. However - I do wonder just how many of our forum people have experienced a tyre coming loose on the wheel?

[philthehill]

BMC
Ultimatey it is up to each and every one of us as to whether to fit the tubed or tubeless tyres or to undertake any other modification(s) on their motor vehicle; and for those actions the driver takes the risk and is held responsible for his actions. Just because you have no reported incidents does not mean it cannot happen and as an engineer you will know that the longer it goes on the higher the probability it will happen.
I have made my point and how it is acted upon is out of my hands so will comment no more,

[Alex'n'Ane]

Surely inner tubes catch on the internal rivets, and rusty tyre, so wear through and burst more?

[aupickup]

well i am staying with tubeless
i did read somewhere in a morris minor original manual the mention of tubeless rims i will dig it out and put it on here

[mike.perry]

Workshop Manual, Sect. O5. Vehicles now fitted with tubeless tyres and which primarily were fitted with ordinary tyres have a metal valve holder. When tubeless tyres are fitted as standard equipment an all weather valve holder, together with a modified wheel is fitted. etc etc. No mention of not fitting tubeless tyres as replacements for tubed tyres.
I have been running my Series MM on 155/14 tubeless radials for 35 years without incident but then what do I know?