brake lines - material?

Discuss other problems here.

Moderator: Moderators

Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:19 pm

The brake lines of the car are made of copper or some copper mixture.

The German TÜV (MOT) wants to see steel lines and maybe I don't get the permission to bring on the road.

When I looked at MOSS or Charles Ware's only copper lines are available. Is copper a common solution for many cars or is it a speciality of the Minor?

Does any of the German owners have experience with the German TÜV and such brake lines?

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 6756
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby philthehill » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:30 pm

What you need is Kunifer brake pipes which are made from a Cupro Nickel alloy.

Cupro Nickel brake pipes experience very little hardening over time and do not rust either.

You will not do better than to fit Cupro Nickel (Kunifer) brake pipes.

Copper brake pipes can harden over time and any vibration can cause them to crack and fail. Therefore copper brake pipes will not get my recommendation.


Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:06 pm

Does MOT have no problems with KUNIFER in GB?

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 6756
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby philthehill » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:08 pm

The MOT does not have any problems with Kunifer brake pipes in the UK.

Are you saying the authorities will only allow steel brake pipes in Germany?


Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:58 pm

If they can the authorities will make troubles. There have been only a few cars in D e.g. Porsche 928 or some VOLVO which came with nonsteel out of the factory. They may say that when the car was build it comes with steel lines and so it must have steel lines for all the future.

But if it is approved solution in one country of the EU with permission of the authorities it must be allowed in D too because in the EU there is a free movement of goods.


What's about modern cars e.g. VAUXHALL MOTORS?
Last edited by Bela on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

minijojo
Minor Fan
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 5:16 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby minijojo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:00 pm

some times it´s only a matter of the TÜV Station you visit
where are you located in Germany?

Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:04 pm

North Bavaria N/FÜ/ER/SC

minijojo
Minor Fan
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 5:16 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby minijojo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:15 pm

i am from near Hamburg, so can not advice any TÜV station in north Bavaria, sorry
my 2-door has KUNIFER brake lines and i got no problems

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 6756
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby philthehill » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:24 pm

So what has been said about the disc brakes fitted to your Minor - Morris Minors were never fitted with disc brakes from the factory.

It appears to be a case of selective application of the regulations or are there allowances for improved safety?

If the brake pipes have to revert to the original steel type so then should the brakes revert to drums. It appears to me that officialdom has gone mad.

Phil


Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:15 pm

Quote of an email I got from the TÜV:

The English MOT is ridiculous anyway and in no way complies with the EC requirements. So much for the common market. I am hopeful, when Brexit finally takes place, that this nonsense finally stops, believe me, please. You can not imagine what rubbish on wheels from the UK spills over to us.

May be the cars out of GB are not as intelligent as German cars. They don't notice if they drive on a roll test stand or not during exhaust test. ;-)

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 6756
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby philthehill » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:23 pm

It appears on the face of it that the TUV people do not understand the British MOT relating to cars over 40 years of age.

Cars over 40 years old that have had no major alterations (which are specified in legislation) do not need to have a MOT which if I understand correctly was agreed with the EU.


Nickol
Minor Addict
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:40 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Nickol » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:37 pm

The basic problem with the TüV organisation whether it be Nord or Süd is exactly the same but on a larger scale than British MOT stations. A lot comes down to interpretation and application. Added to that is the individual testers personnal taste. End result is widespread inconsistency even though the basic rules are the same.

Thus if you get a problem with unreasonable interpretation at one place, then you have to go to another. Trouble is the costs increase and sometimes it is easier just to do what is asked because it is cheaper than going through the rigmoral again.

A good example is the wing nuts ( I do not know the correct term) that are used to hold inplace spoked wheels. The TüV simply will not except them. Owners therefore have an ordinary set of wheels only for the bi-yearly test and put the spoked wheels on again afterwards.

Absurd but true. This has nothing to do with EU regulations by the way, it is only German standards.
Gott schütze mich vorm Sturm und Wind und Autos, die aus England sind.
download/file.php?id=4822[/sig]

Nickol
Minor Addict
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:40 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Nickol » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:50 pm

philthehill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:23 pm
It appears on the face of it that the TUV people do not understand the British MOT relating to cars over 40 years of age.

Cars over 40 years old that have had no major alterations (which are specified in legislation) do not need to have a MOT which if I understand correctly was agreed with the EU.
I missed this in my previous post. The EU consulting paper was issued in 2014. It asked all member states to consider revising their national laws in consideration of older vehicle testing. The recommendation was for vehicles over 30 years being exempt. The British regulation you know - even though many were opposed to the idea of no testing - and settled on a 40 year threshhold. Some of the other member states also adopted the EU idea - it was by the way not a directive but a suggestion.

I actually wrote to the authorities here in Germany to ask what they were conisdering as a result of the EU consulting paper. And I got a reply which read, my translation.

The Bundesregierung does not have it in mind to change any legistlation regarding existing national and state requirements for periodic testing of vehicles of historic interest.

We can therefore legally drive at over 400km/hr , but not , apparantly with kunifer brake pipes........
Gott schütze mich vorm Sturm und Wind und Autos, die aus England sind.
download/file.php?id=4822[/sig]

King Kenny
Minor Friendly
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:01 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby King Kenny » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:46 pm

And I thought the French system of registering a UK vehicle was difficult. I contacted FFVE (French Federation for Historic Vehicules) and they cave me a Certificate of Conformity so that my 1969 Traveller could be registered here. My Minor has disc brakes and Kunifer brake pipes.
Is there German equivalent that may help you?

Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:36 pm

@King Kenny
I've informed SOLVIT and I'm waiting for support. http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/index_en.htm

@ Nickol in German (sorry @ all)

Das Europaparlament hat 2014 eine Oldtimerdefinition und ein Verkehrssicherheitspaket verabschiedet (Richtlinie 2014/45/EU des Europäischen Parlaments und des Rates über die regelmäßige technische Überwachung von Kraftfahrzeugen und Kraftfahrzeuganhängern). Darin werden die EU-Staaten aufgefordert, bis zum Mai 2017 die Untersuchungsfristen u.a. für historische Fahrzeuge in Europa zu vereinheitlichen.

Entnommen dem Antrag der FDP
LANDTAG NORDRHEIN-WESTFALEN 16. Wahlperiode
Drucksache 16/11423
08.03.2016Datum des Originals: 08.03.2016/Ausgegeben: 08.03.2016
Antrag der Fraktion der FDP

Beschlussfassung:

Der Landtag fordert die Landesregierung auf, sich auf Bundesebene dafür einzusetzen, dass die Prüfungsintervalle für Oldtimer mit H-Kennzeichen von bisher zwei auf fünf Jahre erweitert werden.

Translation by Google @all

The European Parliament adopted in 2014 a classic car definition and a road safety package (Directive 2014/45 / EU of the European Parliament and of the Council on the periodic roadworthiness testing of motor vehicles and their trailers). In it, the EU countries are invited to the examination periods u.a. to unify for historic vehicles in Europe.

Taken from the request of the FDP
LANDTAG NORDRHEIN-WESTFALEN 16th legislative term
Printed matter 16/11423
08.03.2016Date of the original: 08.03.2016 / Issued: 08.03.2016
Request by the FDP faction

resolution:

The state parliament calls on the provincial government to commit itself at the federal level to extend the examination intervals for classic cars with H license plates from the previous two to five years.
Last edited by Bela on Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Nickol
Minor Addict
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:40 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Nickol » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:38 pm

That would seem like an eminently reasonable Suggestion for the test every 5 years instead of the present two. However, it appears that the government have ignored the recommendation . This is perhaps to be expected - such ideas sadly from one of the states rarely gets taken up.
Gott schütze mich vorm Sturm und Wind und Autos, die aus England sind.
download/file.php?id=4822[/sig]

ampwhu
Minor Fan
Posts: 487
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:51 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby ampwhu » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:26 pm

a great case to leave the EU!

sorry......couldn't resist.

Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:50 pm

Because?????

SteveClem
Minor Legend
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:37 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby SteveClem » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:43 pm

I'm guessing that ampwhu is referring to the bureaucracy involved with such a massive and,arguably, monolithic organisation. :wink:

Bela
Minor Friendly
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: brake lines - material?

Postby Bela » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:12 pm

Yes - massiv bureaucracy (or bureaucrazy?)

But that's not coming from Brussel - it's only because the German think they are up with technical solutions and the others make crap.

Brussel wants to make a car transfer from one state to the other as easy as a transfer within a state.

Coming together means to accept each other solutions when it make things easier in the end.

A British car with KUNIFER brake pipes driving on German streets doesn't make traffic dangerous - that depends on too much alc, too much drugs, too much testosteron (more than 300HP and 250km/h), too much comunication via mobil and too much stress or tiredness.

So what will be the benefit of a Brexit in that case? Customs? Same procedure for a car with COC papers as for a historical car? No deal with a German? No visit of a German? No money transfer from Germany to GB? No fame in Germany for old British cars? No friendship between British and German enthusiasts?

I'd ordered about 3.000 GBP spares for my MG TD last two month from MOSS and Brown & Gammons. So after Brexit this will be missing. I guess I'll purchase at angloparts who has a big storage with old parts and get spares from India and elsewhere like MOSS or B&G do.

My English Life Assurance has moved to Ireland with Millions of GBP and employees - because a majority(?) want's it. Sorry - in my personal situation I can see no benefits for people, who wants to leave.

Everyone is responsible for his life. And everyone must deal with their own decisions. To make a decison safely it is good to have as much information as possible what will be at the end after a decision. And everyone has the right to make his own mistakes and learn.


But

when I was young and told my boss I must learn from my own faults he replied:

The wise man looks back to the past and looks forward to the future - that's he learns from.

The smart man learns from the mistakes other have made.

Only the foolish learns from their own faults.

Sorry - but I didn't start to talk about that problem.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests