electronic ignition minefield !!
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electronic ignition minefield !!
I want to convert my minor saloon to electronic ignition but have to admit to being baffled by all the kits available, any advise ?
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- Minor Legend
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
Many people have had good success with the Accuspark Lucas 45d type complete distributor with electronic ignition fitted, in many cases the distributors are worn so replacing it as a complete item can solve ignition related running problems.
If you do go down the complete dizzy route be sure to follow the instructions and you wont go far wrong.
Here is a video showing how to fit the electronic ignition in a mgb but the principle is the same in a moggy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtgfitJpQ1s
If you do go down the complete dizzy route be sure to follow the instructions and you wont go far wrong.
Here is a video showing how to fit the electronic ignition in a mgb but the principle is the same in a moggy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtgfitJpQ1s
Richard
Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.
Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.
Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
You're not alone fitting this mod but I've yet to see the advantage in making a simple reliable car, more complicated! I think most people who have this modification carry the original setup for when alteration goes wrong! That speaks volumes to me,
Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
thanks for advice,another question is: do I need to fit a new coil ?
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- Minor Legend
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
No you don't need to change the coil but you do need the car to be negative Earth, though you can buy positive Earth kits but they are more expensive.
Richard
Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.
Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
I fitted the Aldon Ignitor kit to our Minor in 1998 and have never needed to look at it, until one of the wires inside the distributor cap fretted and broke after 18 years and 50,000+ miles - not sure if that is reasonable or not?
The failure gave me warning as a high-speed misfire on the way down to the Portsmouth ferry and the start of the 2015 Euroclassic in France. I did carry a set of points with me, so after a couple of days swapped the Ignitor unit out for the points.
Later in the year I replaced the whole distributor with a distributorless solid state 3D NODIZ fully mapped ignition system, which is excellent, but I now carry a complete pre-timed distributor, coil and connections with me, just-in-case!
The failure gave me warning as a high-speed misfire on the way down to the Portsmouth ferry and the start of the 2015 Euroclassic in France. I did carry a set of points with me, so after a couple of days swapped the Ignitor unit out for the points.
Later in the year I replaced the whole distributor with a distributorless solid state 3D NODIZ fully mapped ignition system, which is excellent, but I now carry a complete pre-timed distributor, coil and connections with me, just-in-case!
Richard
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
Accuspark system has been great on both of my minors and on my Austin A30. So I fitted it onto the Beetle. Complete disaster! After 3 new sets I'm back to original points etc. Bug man says they've been problematic lately.
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- Minor Fan
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
The worst of all cars to retro fit electronic ign to is a v/w beetle ..
One clyd is made to be retarded . This is because of the oil cooler placement above that clyd.
One clyd is made to be retarded . This is because of the oil cooler placement above that clyd.
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
Think here repairability.
Electronic modules are not the cheapest but are likely better for economy and 'fit and forget' situations.
Those who carry a spare Kettering system, for the unlikely event of module failure, are 'belts and braces' types. Carrying a spare electronic module would be more expensive, but likely just as effective.
Part of the attraction of these old cars is the ease of repair. Electronics don't come under that category! I built my first electronic ignition system, so could have carried a few transistors, capacitors, etc as spares. I did not. It did not fail.
Modern cars rarely fail in this department, but unfortunately Moggie Owners find that some electronic systems have a higher failure rate than hoped for. Unfortunately, there are not many service points for our old cars these days, so we have to carry our own spares or rely on specialists for back up.
So your choice is really down to cost and research on absolute reliability. Even IslipMinor carries a spare system, although he has had only one failure in how many years? Probably would not if he did not take his car abroad regularly? A set of contact points does nof taje up much space, but one does need to know how to fit them in an emergency!
RAB
Electronic modules are not the cheapest but are likely better for economy and 'fit and forget' situations.
Those who carry a spare Kettering system, for the unlikely event of module failure, are 'belts and braces' types. Carrying a spare electronic module would be more expensive, but likely just as effective.
Part of the attraction of these old cars is the ease of repair. Electronics don't come under that category! I built my first electronic ignition system, so could have carried a few transistors, capacitors, etc as spares. I did not. It did not fail.
Modern cars rarely fail in this department, but unfortunately Moggie Owners find that some electronic systems have a higher failure rate than hoped for. Unfortunately, there are not many service points for our old cars these days, so we have to carry our own spares or rely on specialists for back up.
So your choice is really down to cost and research on absolute reliability. Even IslipMinor carries a spare system, although he has had only one failure in how many years? Probably would not if he did not take his car abroad regularly? A set of contact points does nof taje up much space, but one does need to know how to fit them in an emergency!
RAB
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
Thanks for that info. None of the bug people have mentioned that.Smithy1961 wrote:The worst of all cars to retro fit electronic ign to is a v/w beetle ..
One clyd is made to be retarded . This is because of the oil cooler placement above that clyd.
Back to research. Runs like a dream now it's back on points
Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
There's a Velleman kit that uses the existing points but takes the current through the electronics so that the points don't wear (very much). It cost's a tenner plus a suitable box for it to live in.
http://www.velleman.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p199.html
So you still time & gap your points up as before but they shouldn't wear out. The capacitor (condensor) is bypassed. So if the unit failed you could just re-connect the capacitor, disconnect the unit and you're back to points. The rest of the distributor can still wear, Ie the rotor arm and cap as they do the same job as before and aren't replaced.
http://www.velleman.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p199.html
So you still time & gap your points up as before but they shouldn't wear out. The capacitor (condensor) is bypassed. So if the unit failed you could just re-connect the capacitor, disconnect the unit and you're back to points. The rest of the distributor can still wear, Ie the rotor arm and cap as they do the same job as before and aren't replaced.
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
have ran with accuspark electronic ignition since 2011. drove all the way tom Scotland and back and 1,000's of miles since. when servicing time comes around, all that's required is a change of oil and filter and a clean and check the gap of the spark plugs. no air filter as I have k&n fitted. so reliable and have never touched the dizzy since it has been installed.
don't believe in carry a spare dizzy with points etc. if your going down that route, carry a spare gearbox in your boot. you never know.....
don't believe in carry a spare dizzy with points etc. if your going down that route, carry a spare gearbox in your boot. you never know.....
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- Minor Legend
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
Scenario: In the middle of France, taking part in a classic car run, and the electronic module fails after ~16 years and 50,000+ miles, more than 50% in continental Europe and Scandinavia, of uninterrupted service.don't believe in carry a spare dizzy with points
Options (bear in mind its a Saturday afternoon):
Order a new module on Monday, in 2 day's time, and wait for it to arrive - the classic car run is now 100's of miles away, and actually finished
Find the nearest Lucas agent, and pop in to collect a set of points - % likelihood?
Fit the spare set of points kept handily in the boot - 15 minutes later on our way to enjoy the rest of the run with everyone else
Same applies to the full electronic set up we now have - bear in mind it is very unlikely to have gone through the extensive OEM testing that 'modern' cars have.
Yes, we do go out the UK quite a bit, but the space taken up is minuscule and peace of mind is very reassuring!
Richard
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
why not tow a trailer with a spare car on it. if's but's and maybe's. what happens if your car gets written off? you'd still miss the race.
if you don't trust modern technology than refit your points etc. I'd never return to that. who wants to be fiddling around in the rain with a set of feeler gauges these days.
if you don't trust modern technology than refit your points etc. I'd never return to that. who wants to be fiddling around in the rain with a set of feeler gauges these days.
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
???don't trust modern technology
Why would I have fitted the Aldon Ignitor distributor module nearly 20 years ago, and the current solid state Nodiz 3D mapped ignition system last year, if I did not? But then I don't have blind faith either.
Presumably you don't carry a spare wheel either? Takes up much more room than a distributor.
I can't remember in detail all the way back to when my mother first bought the Minor 50+ years ago, and whether we had any punctures (I think not), but certainly since the restoration in 1998, I have had one puncture in 50,000+ miles since then, and one electronic ignition module failure in the same period. Very pleased that we carried the necessary spares and tools on both occasions!
Richard
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
I agree with Richard. It's sensible to pack a few essential spares. A complete distributor (plus more besides) is out of sight in the otherwise cavernous wasted space of the under-boot. The other option is a ruined holiday.
Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html
this helped me and made easy, understandable reading - includes diagrams!
this helped me and made easy, understandable reading - includes diagrams!
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Re: electronic ignition minefield !!
A little off topic as this is regarding VW Type 1 engines, but this is more of an issue on the pre ‘doghouse’ oil cooler engines - on them, the cooling air for cylinder no. 3 is pre-heated by the oil cooler, so cylinder no. 3 (front left) runs hotter. On later engines with the doghouse cooler, the cooler gets its own cooling air, as does cylinder number 3, so all should run around the same temperature meaning you shouldn’t have a problemSteveClem wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:48 pmThanks for that info. None of the bug people have mentioned that.Smithy1961 wrote:The worst of all cars to retro fit electronic ign to is a v/w beetle ..
One clyd is made to be retarded . This is because of the oil cooler placement above that clyd.
Back to research. Runs like a dream now it's back on points