Doris cuts out

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Doris1970
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Doris cuts out

Postby Doris1970 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:09 pm

Hi all this is my first post . I purchased my first Morris Minor 2 door salon in June I've named her Doris and as of yet only manage to drive her for about quarter of a mile from the repair shop where she had all welding done and has passed her MOT which is GREAT . but not so great is when I drove to my sons house around the corner where she will be staying in Kinmel Bay North Wales I left her running on the drive and unfortunately she ran out of petrol . I put fuel in and eventually managed to get her fired up again but only for about 5 mins then she cut out again , I tried to get her started again but failed plus battery if now flat , so pushed her into the garage and contacted a local mechanic to go look at her , this is now a week and half ago and still no sign of him , anyway I was wondering if anybody out there knows of anybody who lives in that area and has the knowledge (unlike me ) to try and get her going again , previous to this she fired up on the turn of the key no problem . Any information would be great . Many Thanks Paul

SteveClem
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Re: New member...

Postby SteveClem » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:29 pm

Could be lots of things,but likely very simple. Get the battery charged. Then check the fuel pump is working when you turn the ignition on. It should tick quite audibly. No ticking,try a gentle tap on the fuel pump.
If she still doesn’t start report back and there are lots of other easy things to try :wink:

Doris1970
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Re: New member...

Postby Doris1970 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:09 pm

Hi thanks for reply. Checked fuel pump and it is clicking and delivering fuel to the float chamber then stops clicking as float chamber full. I’m wondering if the fuel is getting through to the carb. What you think I should try next ? Cheers

Trickydicky
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Re: New member...

Postby Trickydicky » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:11 pm

Sounds like it has brought up some debris from the bottom of the tank, start with cleaning the filter in the fuel pump then check the float chamber for any debris.
Richard

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Doris1970
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby Doris1970 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:51 pm

thanks Tricky I will try that next when I return to Prestatyn in Wales on Saturday , ill be spending the full weekend there so fingers crossed , first job battery on charge . Did a silly thing tried to jump start her soon realised she is positive earth , hope ive not caused a major disaster . Cheers paul

Doris1970
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby Doris1970 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:21 pm

Great and thanks for the reply , and no I don't mind at all you putting things to another thread , if it helps all the better , im not very clued up with all this . So the story so far my Minor ( Doris ) is currently staying at my sons house in north wales near Prestatyn , as I said previously I drove her quarter of a mile to his garage , I left her ticking over on the drive and she ran out of fuel , put more fuel in her and eventually got her to start again but after 5 minutes she stalled again , tried and tried to fire her up again until battery was flat , at that point I gave up and pushed into the garage . I checked fuel pump was supplying fuel to float chamber and all was ok there . I took top of float chamber and soaked the fuel out which was in there a blob of jelly looking sludge was in there too , replaced float chamber top and turned ignition on pump was clicking away fine , checked float chamber again and it was full of fuel . At that point I had the bright idea of trying to put jump leads on to jump start I soon realised Doris was Positive Earth luckily I got the leads off rapidly , hopefully I haven't caused a disaster . I will going back to wales at weekend so would love a list of things to checks for me to do to see if I can get her going again . many thanks Paul

pgp001
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby pgp001 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:13 pm

Its possible you have some dirt or a blob of water stuck in the main jet or its flexible feed tube by the sounds of it.

Phil

simmitc
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby simmitc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:45 am

It sounds as if there might be crud in the fuel. If the tank has a drain plug and it's not tusted solid, then drain and flush the tank - use suitable containers, well ventilated place, no sources of ignition, and other similar precautions for handling petrol. If that's not possible then disconnect the fuel pipe from the carb and put it in a container, then disconnect the ignition coil (to stop it overheating) and switch on ignition thus using the fuel pump to drain the tank. Flush with new petrol.

Remove the inlet pipe from the fuel pump and blow down it to clear that pipe. Clean the pump filter, Clean the carb float chamber and jet. Reconnect everything and then try running with fresh fuel.

Also check the state of thge flexible fuel pipe and rpelace if in poor condition.

oliver90owner
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby oliver90owner » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:24 am

Do check that there is a spark at the plugs, when it will not start. No point in going through the fuel system if it happens to be an intermittent ignition problem!

How did you know it had run out of fuel? Making assumptions, when dealing with faults, is not a good policy. Checking systematically is a far better way to minimise wasted effort.

Doris1970
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby Doris1970 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:22 pm

as I said I am no expert but she was ticking over nicely on the drive for 10 minutes then just cut out , and checked the fuel gauge and this was showing empty so assumed she ran out of fuel , put in £7 of fuel and gauge up to quarter tank . I might have to see if I can find a local mechanic who has knowledge of Minors , what will take me hours he most probably take half hour , as I say I am going back to Prestatyn at weekend and will try all the suggestions I get on here from you guys first . Its a long shot but does anyone out there live or know of anyone in the area of Prestatyn or Rhyl who would be willing to meet up with me and assist ? I need all the help I can get haha . many thanks everybody and please keep the suggestions flowing . cheers

myoldjalopy
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:14 pm

As stated earlier, it could be any number of things. But first thing that needs to be known is, despite circumstantial evidence that it may be a fuel problem, is it actually a fuel or an ignition problem?

So, first check - again, as earlier - is there a strong, blue spark at the plugs? If there is, then I would start looking at the fuel system with the "bung a bit of fuel down the carb throat and crank the engine" test, after removing the air filter. Depending on the outcome of that, the focus might be either on the carb itself, or the fuel line/tank - we know the pump fills the float. Of course, if there are no good sparks, then we have to take a different line of inquiry.

However, without a certain level of experience and knowledge, it is very difficult to go through all the tests with confidence and surity at a distance. Therefore, a helping hand from someone local to the OP would be the best way.

But, if thats not possible, keep reporting back and we can lead you through the tests - one at a time if necessary, though that may take a while, depending on where the problem actually lies. 'Doris' will live again!

Slightly tangenital thought - What this forum really needs is a 'sticky' binary choice flowchart, that can lead people through a logical series of tests for 'no start' problems. Surely the club could create such a resource? It would save a lot of messing about.

geoberni
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:58 am

The OP hasn't mentioned the age of his Minor, or if it is Positive/Negative earth, or was + but is now -ve.

See my post from May about my problems regarding sparks...
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=70183
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oliver90owner
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby oliver90owner » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:00 am

Yes, a weaker spark, maybe, but they usually start and run ‘reasonably’ , but perhaps not optimally, if the wrong way round.

In this instance, the owner has not yet checked whether there is even a spark, let alone a weaker one.

I have always pushed the principle of systematic diagnosis, before wasting time, effort and money on unnecessary red herrings. It works!

SteveClem
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby SteveClem » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:05 am

geoberni wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:58 am
The OP hasn't mentioned the age of his Minor, or if it is Positive/Negative earth, or was + but is now -ve.

See my post from May about my problems regarding sparks...
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=70183
He says that it’s positive earth and wonders if he’s done any harm trying to jumpstart it.

geoberni
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:33 am

SteveClem wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:05 am
geoberni wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:58 am
The OP hasn't mentioned the age of his Minor, or if it is Positive/Negative earth, or was + but is now -ve.

See my post from May about my problems regarding sparks...
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=70183
He says that it’s positive earth and wonders if he’s done any harm trying to jumpstart it.
Sorry, I missed that :oops: .
So it might be worth checking the Coil connections. I must admit, I didn't realise my spark was weak until I changed the connections over.
oliver90owner wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:00 am

I have always pushed the principle of systematic diagnosis, before wasting time, effort and money on unnecessary red herrings. It works!
Totally agree, especially with electrical circuits and car not starting problems. I'm a former aircraft electrician; if you don't work systematically, you're screwed!
But equally, if you're under the bonnet looking at the plugs for a spark, then checking the coil connections are secure, and the right way around, is a good thing to do while in the same general location. As in you don't have to change position. :wink:
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simmitc
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby simmitc » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:30 pm

I agree with checkikng for a spark, but we already know that the fuel gauge was reading empty, so even if it still had a little left, it would be low, and we also know "I took top of float chamber and soaked the fuel out which was in there a blob of jelly looking sludge was in there too" which does suggest some stale fuel and cleaning the system is going to be worth doing anyway.

As an aside, the fuel pick-up is always at the bottom of the tank (it's a fixed pipe, not floating), but when the fuel level is low then any sludge and dirt forms a more concentrated solution.

oliver90owner
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby oliver90owner » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:02 pm

I agree with the last few posts, but how long does it take to remove one spark plug lead, insert a known good example, short to the engine (or bright bodywork) and spin the engine over with the starter motor? (taking the usual safety precautions, of course).

IF there was no spark there is the likelihood that the first several posts were a waste of useful effort. If a good spark, that system has been eliminated as a cause and the first several posts are known to be very pertinent. I have no issue of either result, but we all would know where to concentrate our efforts.

les
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby les » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:05 pm

[quote=oliver90owner

I have always pushed the principle of systematic diagnosis, before wasting time, effort and money on unnecessary red herrings. It works!
[/quote]
Really, we hadn’t noticed! :D I can’t and don’t want to argue with that approach but not everyone has the wherewithal, rigging up test gear takes time and knowledge so replacing parts, especially if to hand, is often the option taken, if there is a reasonable reason to suspect a component of course. :D


Doris1970
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby Doris1970 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:04 pm

A big thank you to you all for the info , I am returning to wales Saturday first thing I will do is check for a good spark and check ignition coil leads have a good connection , but surely they must be connected up correctly as Doris fired up no problem previously , but I will check as a measure of course , I will report back ASAP , once again thanks all cheers

Doris1970
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Re: Doris cuts out

Postby Doris1970 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:08 pm

Sorry forgot to add . Doris is a 1970 2 door saloon Almond Green


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