Gearbox prices

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jagnut66
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Gearbox prices

Postby jagnut66 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:02 pm

Hi,
Is it me?
I have been away for approximately two years (still a member but without a Minor), I come back and gearbox prices seem to have shot up, especially 1098 ribbed case ones.
People on eBay can easily pay £200 + for a secondhand unit and even the cheaper ones are not so cheap any more, for something you are basically taking a bit of a chance on......
I have managed to get one for £50 but I think that was because of the way he worded / titled the advert, after this the cheapest 'used' box started at £70 and that was an auction, so they wanted more.
When I last bought a used unit, not that long before I sold Olwyn, it cost me £30 and that was an easy find, plus a damn good box that was fitted when she went.
I also notice we have people advertising for secondhand boxes in the magazine now, presumably to buy as cheap as possible, restore and then resell for £500+ (based on the prices of what is probably now a well know refurbisher).

I've said it before and I'm saying it again, if we allow people to drive the cost of our hobby up to silly levels then we will drive the next generation of enthusiasts away (and I'm not just talking about Morris Minors here), simply because they will have other priorities at an age when we need to be enthusing and engaging them with / encouraging them into a hobby that both provides them with a distinctive form of transport and that is easily affordable to the pocket of the ordinary working man / woman. Especially young men and women that are just starting their working lives, with potentially the wonders of parenthood beckoning just around the corner.

I'm now also seeing a 4 door saloon being advertised for over twenty grand, where will this madness end!! :roll:
The greed of the few (investors and speculators) may yet destroy our hobby and make it the playground only of the very well off...................... :(
Best wishes,
Mike.

(Still missing) Olwyn Image

irmscher
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby irmscher » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:24 am

I agree Jagnut prices are ridiculous young enthusiasts will not be able to afford a car .The dealers come on the site buy cheap and advertise for stupid prices £12/15000 :evil:

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ManyMinors
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby ManyMinors » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:53 am

It is natural that prices rise a bit over time. I don't personally think it is realistic to expect to be able to purchase a secondhand gearbox in good working order for £50.00. I would expect to have to pay, say £200.00 for such a thing. The cost of reconditioning a gearbox must be high after all and that is the only alternative if you need a gearbox. I'm not sure it is just dealers, investors and speculators who drive prices up. Most Morris Minors and used spare parts for them are advertised by private owners and many are offered at highish prices. When you sold your previous Minor, did you not try to obtain the highest price you could get? I imagine most of us do? It is human nature. Prices are simply driven by supply and demand and costs. I would guess that any Morris Minor offered for sale for £20,000 will probably be in a condition which to replicate would cost even more?

Certainly I agree that it is important to encourage the young into our hobby, but I'm not sure that many youngsters are very interested in getting dirty at weekends fixing old cars. They are not taught practical skills by their parents OR in schools so they have no knowledge or confidence and they mostly don't have accommodation where they can keep and work on old cars. Many youngsters aren't even bothered about learning to drive! Many youngsters I know who DO have a car seem to have brand new ones which they lease - so it isn't a question of not being able to afford a Morris Minor or similar. It is just a matter or preference in a changing world.

geoberni
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby geoberni » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:17 am

I totally agree with ManyMinors, but there is also a Societal aspect; there is a lack of general 'hands on' skills these days.

If you break down in your minor, you need to hope the recovery person is 'of a certain age' because many of the younger ones can't fix a car unless it has a diagnostic port to download to their computer.
We as a country have an issue, caused by a generation that was encouraged to enter university rather than go for a practical skills vocation, which is why the construction industry is short of skilled workers unless they are all imported from Eastern Europe.
Basil the 1955 series II

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myoldjalopy
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:19 am

It is a pity but I believe we live in a very avaricious society now, our economy is based on hyper-consumerism, and everything seems expensive - I am dismayed at the price of a pint of beer nowadays :(

I too am surprised at the prices of cars and some mechanical components but, to some degree, this reflects the rarity of our vehicles. The Morris Minor is still well represented, fortunately, but gone are the days when they were a regular and familiar sight on the roads. At least nowadays people are restoring examples which would, in previous years, have been sent to the scrap heap, which has slowed down the rate of disappearance, I hope. Over time, they have changed from being brand new vehicles straight off the production line, to reliable second-hand cars, to 'old bangers' providing cheap transport, to collectors items. Cars in more or less original condition are rarities nowadays and this increases their value. And if many hours of work have been put in to restore one well, this too will be reflected in the price.

I suppose some people must pay what seem like absurd prices, or dealers etc. wouldn't keep asking them. But this does make it difficult for the average enthusiast. And, if you are not mechanically minded, garage prices are now punitive - if you can even find an old-time mechanic who knows and understands these vehicles. To tell the truth, I'm not myself very interested in getting dirty at weekends fixing old cars (as 'ManyMinors' puts it) but my Minor is important to me so I do so to save money, and because all the good mechanics I used to know are either dead or retired. It is satisfying to be able to repair your vehicle of course, but there are many other things I would rather be doing than grovelling about on a cold garage floor, scraping my knuckles as I try to undo some recalcitrant component that has failed :roll:

midget
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby midget » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:32 am

I entirely agree with the post above from many minors.
Having just spent a similar sum that he suggested in restoring a Van to a good standard (which I have no plan to sell) he is, sadly, absolutely correct in his assessment of the youth today.
Of course there will be the usual exceptions to the rule but very few in number.
The classic car trade is big business now, but my fear is concerns with "Government" regulations destroying our ability to continue with preserving our "toxic" vehicles in the future?
John

ianmack
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby ianmack » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:53 am

I think the gearbox prices are a simple question of supply and demand. When there were lots of Minors being broken gearboxes and other used parts were plentiful and cheap. Now the cars still in use are wearing out or breaking gearboxes as always but fewer replacements are available so prices rise. The Minor box isn’t unduly complicated and doesn’t need special tools so diy rebuilds are probably the way forward for practical owners. Finding a cheap box and overhauling it is a fairly cost effective way as I found when I wanted to assemble a 948/803 box for my series 2 (Two faulty 948boxes at £15 each plus one 803 at £20.)

Having anything done for you is always getting more expensive. As well as the repairer’s time you pay for premises rent, business rates, employment costs, insurance, VAT and a host of other costs of running a business and these costs are growing all the time.

The younger generation have plenty of modern calls on their time so I don’t think they can be blamed for a lack of interest in the technology of their grandparents. Understanding computers is more likely to provide a career than knowing how to adjust a contact breaker. How many of us know how to fix a steam locomotive?

Myrtles Man
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby Myrtles Man » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:13 pm

Or shoe a horse? 8)

ampwhu
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby ampwhu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:36 pm

I still laugh about the gearbox I purchased from someone on here years ago for £20. He told me it was a good one that I could just fit and use.

When I gave John Evan's (yes the gearbox man) all my gearboxes for him to build me a proper good one (803 box with 948 internals) he did in fact ask where it came from as not a single piece was any good or reusable. He could only use the casing infact. I told him and he told me lesson learned there.

So in future I wouldn't recommend taking anyones word on the condition of a 2nd hand gearbox. Spend the money on a recon one or rebuild it yourself.

The rebuilt one John did is still great and is money well spent.

ampwhu
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby ampwhu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:36 pm

I still laugh about the gearbox I purchased from someone on here years ago for £20. He told me it was a good one that I could just fit and use.

When I gave John Evan's (yes the gearbox man) all my gearboxes for him to build me a proper good one (803 box with 948 internals) he did in fact ask where it came from as not a single piece was any good or reusable. He could only use the casing infact. I told him and he told me lesson learned there.

So in future I wouldn't recommend taking anyones word on the condition of a 2nd hand gearbox. Spend the money on a recon one or rebuild it yourself.

The rebuilt one John did is still great and is money well spent.

les
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby les » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:01 pm

I would have taken 20 quid for a working gearbox with a pinch of salt, despite assurances. However the case alone was worth the money. :D


ampwhu
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby ampwhu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm

It was back in the day when £20 got you a usable gearbox.

ianmack
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby ianmack » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:28 pm

If a gear case is worth £20 nowadays I have several of them..... :D

Murrayminor
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby Murrayminor » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:31 pm

I think it's simply supply and demand.
All major parts will become expensive it's a matter of fact, the less parts there are the more money sellers can demand (and get).
To play devil's advocate why would someone sell a gearbox for say £100 when the next advert has one for twice that price, if you are selling an item then surely you will want the most you can get.
If you were selling to a fellow member then that may be a different thing and a good deal may be obtained.
I know if I was buying I would try the owners club/forums first as you are more likely to find someone of the same ilk who will sell an item to either help you out or they are taking stock and selling unwanted parts.
To get younger people involved would sadly take more than cheap spare parts, as classic car enthusiasts we need to be out there showing the kids what fun it is to crawl around on your back greasing nipples in the middle of winter......then again maybe I'm not the best person to get younger people involved.
Proud owner of my first Morris Minor

jagnut66
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby jagnut66 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:03 pm

I'm afraid I must disagree on both points:
A secondhand box is a secondhand box is a secondhand box and it being in 'good working order' is in the opinion of the vendor, this can only be proven in operation, so anyone buying one that is already out of the car (possibly long since) is taking a chance. I accept this myself with my latest purchase, though I'm hoping to be lucky, as I have been before.
Whilst I accept the point about people wanting to try and get as much as possible for items, paying between £100 and £200 for a secondhand box that you have not been able to see in action or try is, in my opinion, lunacy!
You won't get me paying that much for sure.
So (taking on board another point mentioned) if people are going to start pushing for those prices for secondhand units, then anyone who is able to would be better off learning to repair / rebuild their own box.
The remanufactured units are another issue and I accept that someone has gone to the time and effort to rebuild them.
However I still think the prices are too high but those who can afford to spend £500 to £600 will do so I guess, so we go back to the point of the trade charging as much as they can get away with......

Of course this will all prove academic in time with the push to electrification, though that may be some years off affecting us yet.....

The second point is the unbelievable prices some people put on their cars when trying to sell them.
Every enthusiast who has ever spent time and money restoring his or her pride and joy invariably spends enormous amounts of money over time getting it back to their standard, however none ever expected to get it back. They did it for the love of a particular type of vehicle and because they were enthusiasts.
Then the speculators and investors moved in trying to make a quick buck, sometimes getting their fingers burned in the process (serves them right!).
However I do wonder whether others are now trying to jump on that bandwagon and push the price of once humble motors through the roof, this is now going beyond the realms of simply trying to get a better price than you paid for it and recoup some of the money you've spent, in some cases it is just plain greed.
I have never looked for more than £5K for a good classic and Olwyn sold for a lot less than that and I don't look to recoup my costs, as I'd just end up chasing my tail.
I do this for the pleasure of owning and driving a classic.
I refuse to pay more than £5K for a once humble everyday car, even allowing for rising prices. And it would have to be a good one for me to pay that.
I may up that a bit over time but never to the excessive levels some people seem to be dreaming of!........
Best wishes,
Mike.
(Still missing) Olwyn Image

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PoolGuy
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby PoolGuy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:36 pm

You might want to sit down with a stiff drink at the ready before you click here >>> https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/car-for- ... en-pick-up

paul 300358
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby paul 300358 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:28 pm

I have always wanted to rebuild a spare gearbox but when I see them advertised they are always miles away or quite expensive. Its supply and demand again. I can remember when you could not give a 1275 midget engine away.

ampwhu
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby ampwhu » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:53 pm

nice pick up. ive seen A35 pick ups go for around 25K and they are rare! the MM does have the 5 star package though...….

mine must be worth at least 20K then......

philthehill
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby philthehill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:03 pm

I wish I could remember a time when 1275cc Midget engines could not be given away.
Even back in the 1980s 1275cc Midget engines were fetching good money with some parts like serviceable crankshafts commanding a price of £400 plus and then that was if you could source one.
Thankfully I have managed to build up a good supply of serviceable/new 1275cc Midget engine spares.
For consideration- many of the original Cooper S parts can be interchanged with the 1275cc Midget engine parts and most Cooper S parts are made of better quality materials for example the Cooper S timing gears/sprockets are made of steel instead of sintered iron so will last longer without noticeable wear. The early 1275cc Midget/Sprite engines used Cooper S engine parts and Cooper S grade steel for many of the non interchangeable remaining parts.
Unfortunately original Cooper S spares are rising in price and if you can get hold of good items it is best to snap them up especially EN24V conrods which are the best production rods you can get.
Happy days. :D


StillGotMy1stCar
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Re: Gearbox prices

Postby StillGotMy1stCar » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:40 pm

The pickup in Poolguy’s link has an interesting modification to the heater tap.
Take a look at the engine bay, the tap is attached to the bottom hose tee, the metal hose that runs beside the rocker cover has been removed.
Regards John


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