Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

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geoberni
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Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:38 pm

Basil sits about an inch low on the Nearside, so I thought I'd take a look and see where the Torsion Bar Adjuster plates were set at, were they going to be on the same holes etc....

This is what I found.... :o :o
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Now someone please do correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the fact that the official workshop manual only has one Section K 'Front Suspension', I am now of the opinion that the previous restoration/rebuild of Basil was carried out by a complete and utter moron who should not of been let loose with a Lego Duplo Set, let alone trusted with a welding torch to rebuild a car!

Why bother fitting adjustment plates when you can just weld the ruddy thing in place!!!!
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I haven't yet looked too closely, but it seems they have bolted it together and then just tack welded the side of the bolt.
What I don't understand is why there is no sign of the adjustment slot when viewed from the rear? It seems to be about an inch long when you look at new Cross Members...:-?
Basil the 1955 series II

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Murrayminor
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby Murrayminor » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:00 pm

Have you prodded the underseal at the rear?
Proud owner of my first Morris Minor

philthehill
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby philthehill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:07 pm

You are correct in that vernier adjuster plates have not been fitted.
The vernier adjustment plates are a most important part of the torsion bar assembly.

All is not lost as the slot can be made and the vernier plates retro fitted.
Last edited by philthehill on Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


les
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby les » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:33 pm

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geoberni
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:24 pm

Well here's the results of investigation....
How this came about can only be 1 of 2 options, either of which is unbelievable/ridiculous...

I'm no Welder, but I can't see anyone making such a perfect job of welding the slot over, so the only other option is some remarkable duff Cross member that was made with holes instead of slots....

The Tension Bar adjuster bolt is screwed into a nut that is welded to the Cross Member...
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I was able to remove the Lock Nut on the rear and remove the underseal; there's a neat hole and to my untrained eye, no sign of the slot having been welded to fill it.... those scratch marks are just where I scrapped the underlying paint off.....
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I throw this problem open to my fellow Minor Owners... Ideas to rectify please.

I'm thinking get all the required bits, disassemble as though I were fiddling with the adjusting lever, grind off the welded on nut and drill/grind a slot to the right dimensions....
Sound easy when you write it like that... :o :o
Basil the 1955 series II

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paul 300358
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby paul 300358 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:40 pm

Are you sure that the slot isn't there, its a few inches away from the shouldered washer? Sorry, just looked again at the photos, looks like drill and dremil time.

PoolGuy
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby PoolGuy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:48 pm

philthehill wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:07 pm
You appear not to have fitted the adjuster vernier plates.
The plates are a most important part of the torsion bar assembly.
Phil, it wasn't him.
geoberni wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:38 pm
I am now of the opinion that the previous restoration/rebuild of Basil was carried out by a complete and utter moron

geoberni
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:57 pm

paul 300358 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:40 pm
Are you sure that the slot isn't there, its a few inches away from the shouldered washer? Sorry, just looked again at the photos, looks like drill and dremil time.
You've lost me.
How can the slot be anywhere other than where the bolt goes through the position is dictated by the length of the adjustment arm.... :-?
Basil the 1955 series II

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ManyMinors
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby ManyMinors » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:00 pm

It is hard to tell from your pictures but much of the underside of your car appears to be fabricated from one-off bits of steel rather than from readily available repair panels? The crossmember (and floor and sill sections look completely different shapes to mine.

geoberni
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:05 pm

PoolGuy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:48 pm
philthehill wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:07 pm
You appear not to have fitted the adjuster vernier plates.
The plates are a most important part of the torsion bar assembly.
Phil, it wasn't him.
geoberni wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:38 pm
I am now of the opinion that the previous restoration/rebuild of Basil was carried out by a complete and utter moron
Poolguy
I think it's a foible of the English language, the words are perhaps not in the expected order.... I don't believe Phil was accusing me of not fitting it, his phraseology in this case is more of the foreigner whose English, it slips up a little, like the Monsieur Poirot :lol: Or possibly Master Yoda :lol: :lol:
'You appear not to have the adjuster vernier plates fitted'.
Basil the 1955 series II

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philthehill
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby philthehill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:44 pm

The 'you' is used in the widest generic term and not in any specific pointed direction.

Phil


geoberni
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:46 pm

philthehill wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:44 pm
The 'you' is used in the widest generic term and not in any specific pointed direction.

Phil
:wink: :lol:
Basil the 1955 series II

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paul 300358
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby paul 300358 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:00 pm

As I said Geoberni, Sorry, just looked again at the photos, looks like drill and dremil time.

geoberni
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:01 pm

ManyMinors wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:00 pm
It is hard to tell from your pictures but much of the underside of your car appears to be fabricated from one-off bits of steel rather than from readily available repair panels? The crossmember (and floor and sill sections look completely different shapes to mine.
I couldn't say. Basil is rock solid, but as to the prefabrication of parts, I've no idea. In '93 he was sold to someone in Bracknell but then it's all a bit vague until around '98 and seems to have been on the road ever since.... His current Age Related Reg was obtained in '99. :roll:
Basil the 1955 series II

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PoolGuy
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby PoolGuy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:02 pm

philthehill wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:44 pm
The 'you' is used in the widest generic term and not in any specific pointed direction.

Phil
:lol:

paul 300358
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby paul 300358 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am

You will need to check that the fabricator of the crossmember hasn't fitted a strengthening tube inside the member to stop the sides being crushed in by the bolt. They probably didn't which could be why the nut is welded. But if they did, it will make the job of adding slots much harder.

If its been like that for quite a while, would it not be more prudent just to leave it as is?

geoberni
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:12 am

:-?
Errr sorry to spoil your theory Paul, but the cross member isn't a box section, even if it's not a strange one like mine.....
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/userfile ... S124_3.jpg
As to leaving like it is, the whole point of looking at the adjustment was that the car sits with about an inch list to one side.

I can but assume the idiot responsible for this got the car level before doing so, but didn't allow for any settling of the suspension... :evil:
Basil the 1955 series II

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RobThomas
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby RobThomas » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:17 am

Just a thought, but could you move the rear arm down one spline and drill a new hole? Might be a quicker option. Not ideal but would be a quicker solution with less effort.
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geoberni
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby geoberni » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:03 pm

RobThomas wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:17 am
Just a thought, but could you move the rear arm down one spline and drill a new hole? Might be a quicker option. Not ideal but would be a quicker solution with less effort.
Sorry Rob, but you've lost me....
Down a spline?
or drill a new hole?

If I rotated one rear arm 1 spline and refitted to the exiting nut, then wouldn't that move it 1 1/4" ??
Or I leave the arm where it is, spline wise, but drill a new hole thus altering the dynamics of it as though the adjuster plate had been used.

I don't see what doing both would achieve other than perhaps giving me around 2 " change..... :-?
Basil the 1955 series II

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philthehill
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Re: Torsion Bar Adjuster Plate - Aghhhhh!!!!!

Postby philthehill » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:46 pm

The only way to get round the lack of vernier plates in this case is to take the bolt out, remove the welded on nut, grind the hole downwards, fit the vernier plate and set the suspension correctly.

There is a setting diagram (see below) for the front arms disconnected and free so that the vernier plate can be set as original ex factory and the rest of the suspension can be reassembled.
img122.jpg
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Measurement 'C' in the above drawing is what you need to achieve before reassembling the suspension.

I would advise that the final setting of the vernier plate is not done until the car has settled into its new working height. If you are lucky once you have set the vernier plate in relation to the front arms as measurement 'C' above you may be able to leave as is and enjoy.

.



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