Tracking - too much toe in

[Bill_qaz]

Sorry for multiple duplication

[Myrtles Man]

Thanks all for the feedback. I'm no further on really...

In the light of all this discussion and, if I were you, I'd simply take the car to my local tyre factor and get them to set the correct toe-in then, when your new gizmo arrives, you can practice using it in the re-assurance that you're starting from a correctly set up position. Thereafter you can re-check from time to time and know exactly what you're doing.

[Bill_qaz]

Thanks all for the feedback. I'm no further on really I can see that I should measure the toe In more accurately and I'm bidding on a dunlop tracking gauge but it still doesnt explain why I have too much toe in with track rod end screwed all the way onto the steering rack.

Disconnect the ball joints from steering arm. Set wheels initially straight, parallel to the rear, your string is accurate enough. Count the number of turns of the steering wheel lock to lock and come back half way, the rack will now be centered in straight ahead, put piece of tape on to mark it in case you accidentally move it. Now unscrew rew ball joint from steering rack to see if it will reach steering arm hole without coming off the threads. Let us know what happens to advise further.

[simmitc]

it still doesnt explain why I have too much toe in with track rod end screwed all the way onto the steering rack

Agreed. Originally reported as toe-out, which was perfectly understandable with what you described; but if you have established that you definitely have too much toe-in, then something is wrong. Can you post a picture or two showing the track rods, track rod ends, and the steering arms so that we can see if anything looks out of place.

Did you say that you were getting some replacement TREs? If yes, do they look any different to what you currently have?

[philthehill]

jacki
Correct - the outermost part of the steel wheel rim.

[Bill_qaz]

The telescopic pole suggested above is a very good method of measuring and better than string.

But, by using string, you can make sure that the front wheels are pointing in the same direction as the back wheels. I can't see how that would be the case with a telescopic pole and, it seems to me, you could end up with a precise toe-in measurement but with the front wheels pointing off to one side or the other.

That's why I stated roll the car back and forth between check as it naturally aligns the front and rear if you don't have front to rear alignment equipment. Even the optical type tracking gauge is only comparing front to front wheel.

Culp have you made any progress yet on why having the track rod ends fully screwed on you still believe your wheels are towing in?

[Mr Spigot]

I have read this thread with interest as I am about to replace my steering rack. All the comments are helpful and explain what needs to be done, but having seen the drawing in the workshop manual, it shows 'toe-out' which is surely wrong? The text clearly refers to 'toe-in' but the drawing shows the opposite! Is this an error or is there some rational explanation as it is bound to cause confusion.

[philthehill]

Ignore the drawing. It is an optical illusion that the wheels are tracking outwards.
I have just measured drawing Fig. J.6 Section J 7 and the wheels are parallel .
Set the tracking to 3/32" toe in and you will have the correct toe in.
All rubber bushes and suspension mounts must be in perfect order to maintain the correct toe in.

[geoberni]

Phill's correct, it's a well know optical illusion of the vertical parallel lines, even though they're so far apart towards the extremities of the drawing, appearing to get closer at the top.
The mind interprets the lines as closer together at the top, because that is what things do in real life.Railway tracks receding into the distance, the sides of a tall building. The degree of contrast is also a factor, so as a B&W line drawing it's got negligable perspective to it.
Your mind is trying to put a 3 dimensional aspect to a 2D drawing.
There's loads of examples on the internet...., I could say it's all quite interesting, but that's true only if you're interested in such phenomena

[Sleeper]

Optical illusion?

I measure ( on my screen ) 175mm at the rear and 179mm at the front.... Tracking out.

But having said that, the front wheels should definitely track in by 3/32" ( 2.5mm ) in real life.

John ;-)

[geoberni]

Optical illusion?

I measure ( on my screen ) 175mm at the rear and 179mm at the front.... Tracking out.

But having said that, the front wheels should definitely track in by 3/32" ( 2.5mm ) in real life.

John ;-)

Well, using a ruler on a reprint of the original AKD 530 Workshop Manual, it's 64mm each wheel inner to wheel inner, so if you're going to measure an enlarged image any tiny difference is going to be amplified.
But then we don't know the size of the original artwork, so the whole thing is a bit academic really and 'for illustrative purposes only'....

[Sleeper]

I agree , in the workshop manual ( 14th edition ) they appear parallel and are parallel..

John ;-)

P.S. What was that you said?

Was it Pedant or Peasant?