Conversion from discs back to drum brakes

[Itstheegg]

Hi,

I bought a 1968 four door saloon last year that had a Ford-based disc brake conversion done about 25 years ago. I like the servo, but not overly fond of the discs as they bring the front wheels right out to the edge of the wheel arch and they’re much more expensive to maintain. I have the original drums and hubs, they came with the car.
Has anyone ever “unconverted” back to drums before? I can’t find anything online or on the forums about it.

TIA,
Matt

[svenedin]

Hi,

I bought a 1968 four door saloon last year that had a Ford-based disc brake conversion done about 25 years ago. I like the servo, but not overly fond of the discs as they bring the front wheels right out to the edge of the wheel arch and they’re much more expensive to maintain. I have the original drums and hubs, they came with the car.
Has anyone ever “unconverted” back to drums before? I can’t find anything online or on the forums about it.

TIA,
Matt

I don't know about going back to original (I have drums all round) but I did read up on what has to be done to convert to front discs by finding the instructions online (I now cannot find them). If you can find the instructions for the Ford-based kit this will tell you what you need to undo.

Stephen

[svenedin]

This I believe is for the Ford-based kit:

https://www.limora.com/pdf/530556.pdf

[ManyMinors]

Although I am generally discouraging owners to "upgrade" their cars and feel that my own Minor 1000 is perfectly adequate with its drum brakes, I can see no downside to having discs fitted. I'm surprised by your comment that the discs are expensive to maintain as I don't see why that should be . There shouldn't be much to do really. Also, when I have driven modified cars, the one thing I don't particularly like about many of them is the brake servo. It robs the braking of "feel" in my opinion and a light car like a Minor doesn't need one. Adding a servo doesn't really make the brakes any better and it makes the car more complicated.

One thing you will have to do if you you revert back to drum brakes, is to remove the master cylinder in order to replace the little "top hat" seal which should have been removed when converting to discs......

[Itstheegg]

I'm surprised by your comment that the discs are expensive to maintain as I don't see why that should be . There shouldn't be much to do really.

There isn’t much to do, but discs and pads (predominantly discs) are much more expensive than drums and shoes. I could replace the front discs and pads for about £120 plus postage, or if I had drums all round I could replace all four drums and all shoes for less than £100 delivered.

[ManyMinors]

if I had drums all round I could replace all four drums and all shoes for less than £100 delivered.

You could, but the quality would be very poor

[svenedin]

I'm surprised by your comment that the discs are expensive to maintain as I don't see why that should be . There shouldn't be much to do really.

There isn’t much to do, but discs and pads (predominantly discs) are much more expensive than drums and shoes. I could replace the front discs and pads for about £120 plus postage, or if I had drums all round I could replace all four drums and all shoes for less than £100 delivered.

Yes but it's a bit more complicated than that. I try to keep my car as original as possible but I did consider a disc brake conversion. In the end I decided to keep it drums all round. I have had the car for 34 years so I am rather used to drum brakes. The only time that drum brakes terrified me was when I was about 17 (same car) and braking all the way down a very long steep hill. Towards the bottom there is a bend and I realised the drums had overheated and expanded (brake fade) and we had no brakes! Somehow we got round the corner and the brakes cooled and became functional again quickly but it was a lesson in using low gears to go down hills when appropriate. Drums are not a part that needs replacing very often but obviously shoes are needed periodically. The friction material makes a lot of difference. The older MIntex/Ferodo shoes have asbestos in the linings and are absolutely excellent but they are not made any more and are scarce NOS. If using drum brakes buy the best shoes you can or consider getting the old shoes re-lined by a specialist company. I changed from standard brake fluid to Silicone and this has completely eliminated the problem of seized rear cylinders that used to happen to me so often over the years. I think if I am honest I would keep a car with those nice vented front discs if it already had them.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

I'm surprised by your comment that the discs are expensive to maintain as I don't see why that should be . There shouldn't be much to do really.

There isn’t much to do, but discs and pads (predominantly discs) are much more expensive than drums and shoes. I could replace the front discs and pads for about £120 plus postage, or if I had drums all round I could replace all four drums and all shoes for less than £100 delivered.

But how often would you change discs? Pads are cheap. Interesting your comment about the wheels being spaced out. Does it have wheel spacers to clear the discs? Or is it running modified wider hubs.
Mine has Marina front discs and the wheels look to be in the normal positions.

[King Kenny]

I can only agree with the previous comments. I fitted a Ford disc kit from Mr Burton in the eighties. I also changed to silicone fluid at the same time and I have eliminated the annual rear brake cylinder overhaul. My wheels do not stick out either. As far as maintenance is concerned, I am still running on the original pads despite using the car daily for 20 years. Better brakes are far more important than originality. There are plenty of original cars in museums.

[Itstheegg]

if I had drums all round I could replace all four drums and all shoes for less than £100 delivered.

You could, but the quality would be very poor

I proved that up using parts from ESM, which I’ve never had a problem with. Are their brake parts not good?

[Itstheegg]

But how often would you change discs? Pads are cheap. Interesting your comment about the wheels being spaced out. Does it have wheel spacers to clear the discs? Or is it running modified wider hubs.
Mine has Marina front discs and the wheels look to be in the normal positions.

It has different (wider/longer) hubs to take the discs, and then 6mm spacers for the wheels to clear the callipers. I need to replace the discs as they have warped.

[philthehill]

The above is why I recommend using the Marina based disc brake kit - cheap and cheerful and does the job with spares plentiful at sensible prices and does not break the bank to install.
The Marina disc brake conversion gives very good braking performance without the need for special discs, hubs and callipers.

[Bill_qaz]

Hi Phil, does the Marina conversion use marina wheel bearings? I know mine on the none adjustable fully tightened nut type.

[kevin s]

The Ford based disc set up I copied used Ford discs with the stud holes re-drilled at a 4"pcd and the centre bore enlarged so they slip over the std minor hub and align on the spigit usually used to centre the drum with longer studs. The caliper is then mounted on a bracket which uses the original backplate bolts. Calipers and pads are just KA ones so dirt cheap, the basic discs also cost peanuts, it's getting them machined which will cost If you don't have a lathe.

I did virtually the same but using Corsa C parts, with a flat faced wheel they need around a10mm spacer to clear the caliper a more modern shaped wheel like the minilites doesen't need any spacer to clear the caliper, but it is a bit close to the suspension upright so may need something like 4mm.

[philthehill]

As regards which bearings are used with the Marina disk brake conversion depends upon what stub axles and hubs are used.
My own Marina disc brake conversion uses Marina stub axles with Marina wheel bearings fitted to Marina hubs with the PCD adjusted to 4".
The 7J wheels used do not require wheel spacers.
The original Grumpy's bearing spacer is still required but shortened to provide a rubbing surface for the lip of the hub seal.
When disk brakes are installed on the front of a Morris Minor taper roller bearings should be fitted and adjusted so as to give around 3/16" play at the wheel rim.

[Bill_qaz]

So could I gave marina discs but with minor hubs, so not taper bearing?
The hub nut is just torqued and not used to set free play.

[philthehill]

Bill
I do not know off a Marina disc conversion that used Minor hubs and pre-loaded bearings.
A photo of what you have would be appreciated.
Phil

[Bill_qaz]

Thanks Phil, my cars in storage so will have a look and take a pic when I can. When I got the car it came with discs. I fitted new pads( marina) but seem to remember the wheel bearings were none adjustable, so not taper bearings. I have no issue currently but was going to get bearings in stock in advance but unsure marina or minor.
Thanks for your help

[Bill_qaz]

Bill
I do not know off a Marina disc conversion that used Minor hubs and pre-loaded bearings.
A photo of what you have would be appreciated.
Phil

Hi Phil haven't had a chance to remove the wheel but have a quick pic underneath, sorry about quality, does this give any idea. If they are marina stub axles can minor hubs not be fitted to them, bit confused as I'm fairly sure they are not taper bearings.

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[philthehill]

Bill
Many thanks for the photos.
The mounting bracket is Marina type but I have never seen stone guards of the type as fitted to your Minor.
The calliper as far as I can make out is Marina.
It could be that MG Midget disc brakes have been grafted onto Minor swivels and Midget disc brake hubs being used but a wheel off photo would be required to confirm
Marina hubs can be fitted to Minor stub axles with alternative bearings and a spacer tube.
Minor hubs cannot be fitted to Marina stub axles as the stub axle is a larger diameter.