chassis rot

Post by **emmerson** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:57 am

Having taken off the old wood on my traveller to fit replacements, I've now found what I suspect may be terminal rot in the chassis section between the wheelarch and the door pillar, extending up the pillar by about 4". My welding skill is not very good, and as I say, to my eyes it looks terminal.My computer skill is almost as bad as my welding, so I can't post pics, but is this section available, or would it have to be made up? There is also pretty severe rot in the chassis in front of the pillar, and this is only the first side! I've not dared to look at the left side yet.
The car has been in the family for 20 years, and has not had extensive repairs in that time, certainly not had the wood off, but there are signs of botched welding around the base of the door pillar which could not have been done without removing the wood. The wheel arch also has had some poor work done, and I think all this botching is now "coming home to roost", so to speak. Would a Minor at only 20 years old be likely to need so much welding?
Just to add further to the problems, my health problems prevent me from lying underneath vehicles to work on them!!
I understand that without seeing the job, it is difficult to give an opinion, but suggestions as to what to do with the car would be welcome.
As a pensioner, money is not unlimited, unfortunately!!

Post by **MoggyTech** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 pm

It sounds as though the car could do with a complete restoration, which is not cheap unfortunately. The work needed is likely to be as follows.

Rear chassis extensions and sill extension
Main inner and outer sills and floor sections
Center cross member
Rear spring hangers back and front and probably inner rear wing repairs

Possibly: Front Chassis Legs

Without welding skills this means a complete restoration by one of the main companies. I would estimate between £8000 to £14000 depending on actual extent of the rot, and if a respray would be required.

Not what you wanted to hear I know, but such is Moggy ownership.

Post by **kennatt** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:17 pm

look up the section on posting photos on hear its really easy after a few goes. Put the pics on and let us have a look there will be more than enough advice from there on. It will give you an idea if the car is economically repairable or not

Post by **emmerson** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:55 pm

Thanks peeps. Moggy, I was depressed before: now I'm suicidal!! Kennatt, I'll give it a go.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:09 pm

There are some places that advertise in the club magazine that offer a cost effective complete welding service. It's worth to see ball park prices and enquire about reputation and standard of work with other owners before choosing (if you choose). Price and quality are not always related, but don't just choose on price!!!

If you are capable to do some of the work and don't have the budget for a full specialist restoration, then the more you do the less you spend.

Post by **grumpygrandad** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:27 pm

moggys are never terminal just very poorly and a week or two in intensive care usualy gets them sorted and plent of TLC after,, grandad

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:19 pm

If you've got a rusty traveller and a shallow pocket, then its time to practise your welding skills! As a beginner you may be better off playing with a stick welder as its more forgiving if the metal is not perfectly free from rust. A contentious subject, I know, but a lot of people have their first (and maybe only) experience with a poor quality MIG welder, having been assured that they are childs play, only to find its not so easy!(spoken as an SIP sufferer). If you can master welding you'll feel a whole lot better, and richer!! Give it a go with some bits of old washing machine- if you can weld that stuff you can weld any car!!

Post by **alex_holden** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:22 pm

LINEARAUDIO wrote:If you've got a rusty traveller and a shallow pocket, then its time to practise your welding skills! As a beginner you may be better off playing with a stick welder as its more forgiving if the metal is not perfectly free from rust. A contentious subject, I know, but a lot of people have their first (and maybe only) experience with a poor quality MIG welder, having been assured that they are childs play, only to find its not so easy!(spoken as an SIP sufferer). If you can master welding you'll feel a whole lot better, and richer!! Give it a go with some bits of old washing machine- if you can weld that stuff you can weld any car!!

I don't agree that it's worth learning to stick-weld before having a go with a MIG unless you also want to be able to do the kind of welding that sticks are good for (ie. not thin car bodywork). Also be aware that household appliances are often made from galvanised steel - dangerous stuff to weld unless you are certain you have removed all the zinc first.

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:01 pm

Agreed over the stick welding - I certainly found none of the skills transferable to MIG welding a car

Post by **Redmoggy** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:15 pm

Prob been said before but if your going to learn MIG welding.
Buy a good quality welder of 130amp or more (i've had a sealy welder for 15 years and its great)
A light reactive mask is a good way to go but not a necesity. Some fair quality vice/mole grips decent tin snips and a couple sheets of 18swg steel.
When you reach the point that you have nice pretty weld beads with good penatration drill some holes and have a go at plug welding. Get that down to a T and your ready to try it on the car.
Thats the point when all your practise goes out the window! You will realise this the first time you try welding upside down. That 40 odd year old bit of steel will take some cleaning and degreasing before it stops spitting red hot rocks at you.
Your work cloths will never be the same again and you will probably have a throat full of metal dust for days after you have finished. However when you master it and those new panels are fitted and looking factory fresh you will feel a great warm glow!

This is not meant to put people off and is only my oppinion but what im trying to say is dont try and do it by halfs.

Rod

Post by **kennatt** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:21 am

and track marks down your arm when the hot bits get down your sleeve,plus a bumped head as you try to get up from under the car in a hurry to shake the hot bits out of your sleeve

Post by **emmerson** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:32 am

Definately suicidal now!! My local MOT man came to look at it yesterday, and the only way he'd be interested in doing it would be as a "hospital" job over the next few months, thereby keeping the cost down, but he admits that it is a very borderline case. I think I may try to sell it, complete with all the new wood and carpets etc.

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:17 am

I think I may try to sell it, complete with all the new wood and carpets etc.

The drawback with that option is that the car will be classified as worthless and only the wood and carpets will be attractive to buyers, I am not trying to put you off but in your circumstances what have you got to lose in having a go yourself or using your local hospital man.

Post by **Dean** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:27 pm

'Hospital Job', can someone explain?

Cheers
Dean

Post by **emmerson** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:49 pm

Dean, a "hospital" job is one which doesn't have a time limit on it, and so can be used to fill in slack time when the fitters have no other work. Done that way, the hourly rate is lower than normal, as the boss might otherwise be paying the man to do nothing. The major snag is that it can take months to do the job.

Post by **Dean** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:25 pm

emmerson thanks, that seems a good offer to me.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:31 pm

spoken as an SIP sufferer

Same here - 18 years of it.

If anyone is thinking of buying a MIG welder - check out the MIG welder forums first ;-)

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:01 pm

I would say MT has put a very high price on the work required - although it's true that's what some of the Classic Workshops will charge (they have to - they have wages and overheads to pay!) - but it could be done for less if you can find a 'mobile welder' to come and do the tricky bits for you, and you do all the prep work. So - look up your local paper - or stick a card up in Morrisons.
Is there anyone near this lad who could pop round and have a look at the job to estimate what's required ? It's important to survey the WHOLE car very thoroughly before spending any time/money on it - so there are no late surprises.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:26 pm

I would say MT has put a very high price on the work required

To be honest I don't think that is high for a full resto at a good specialist. There is a LOT of skilled labour required on top of the price of parts and what it costs to run a paint shop.
Depending on time skill and aptitude, doing a bulk of the work DIY can make a big saving if that's what you want / can afford.

Be very careful regarding mobile welders. 99% of them make their money by doing quick/nasty patch up jobs for MOT failure cars. Some of them can do a very good job if they are asked to, but most will be in the habit of cutting corners that it becomes second nature. I have had similar experiences of back street garages too, which is why I learnt to weld. What you really need is someone who wants to do a sympathetic resto and has experience working with classics.

Post by **Luxobarge** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:08 pm

rayofleamington wrote: If anyone is thinking of buying a MIG welder - check out the MIG welder forums first ;-)

As a welder of many years, I'd say this is very good advice - this is one of the VERY best forums for welding >>

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

I would also concur with the comments above re. stick welding - I would NOT advise trying to do stick welding on sheet metal as a way of learning to weld - unless you intend to construct your first colendar! Stick welders do have their place of course, but for car restoration MIG's the way to start IMHO. And on thin sheet I'd advise using CO2/Argon mix rather than pure CO2, as well.

Hope this helps!