alternative way of fitting fixed glass.

[Iain Hall]

I am building up a car for my daughter and I am considering fitting the front, rear and side fixed glass using the same method as is now common with modern cars, namely by gluing them in with Polyurethane glue/sealant and then having some stainless steel surrounds either laser or water jet cut that will like wise be fixed with PU adhesive the stainless trim at the front would would cover the gap between the edge of the glass and the body. stainless trim around the side glass should go well with the stainless steel door tops (the car is a 2 door) and the same around the rear window would just finish the look.
I want to do this mainly because I think that the rubber glass mouldings are very ugly and both rust traps and prone to leaking. Now I have tried the glass in the openings without the rubber and It should work OK. even with the expense of having the stainless cut I doubt that there will be much difference between the cost and buying replacement rubbers which are not that cheap these days.

Interested in feedback form other custom Morris builders because I can't be the only one who thinks that the standard rubber spoils the the smooth look at the front of the car.

[rayofleamington]

A few years back I know of someone who had a split screen windscreen fitted by bonding instead of the standard rubber item.
This was all free as it was done on insurance (skip lorry - motorway.. broken screen. You can probably fill in the rest in between).

The glass fitters struggled to get a new screen in with the poor quality replacement rubbers available - so they cut a custom laminated pair of screens for him and bonded them. I wouldn't have expected such a good service from a regular car glass company (I'm far too cynical), but I guess they had a sympathetic manager in their branch.

Some people dislike 'modern' upgrades but Iain was probably the only person to have a split screen fitted without any leaks in recent years ;-) My splitscreens have always leaked like the rubber was a funnel!

[Iain Hall]

Well that experience tells me that I may well be on the right track here my car is a 1000 so it has a curved screen but it seems to me that the glass has enough over lap with the lip to fit with PU adhesive. I am going for the mild custom look so I don't give a fig about "originality". The rivet counters will get short shift from me because its not as if a Morris Minor is so rare that I will be destroying something unique. In any event had the technology existed to bond windscreens to the car when the Minor was built you can bet that they would have done it, especially if it meant a leak proof car. The only part that concerns me is the inside of the rear screen which uses the rubber to cover the edges of the roof liner, I may just have to fix the inner part of the old rubber (which is not so perished) to the car with some self tapping screws

[MarkyB]

I don't like the sound of filling the gap with adhesive, don't modern cars have rubber that is single sided rather than covering both sides of the screen?
I'd trim the top off a new screen rubber and use that.
Part of the reason for the new way of doing things is to give a nice smooth aerodynamic join to the screen/body interface.

[Iain Hall]

Marky

I want to achieve a nice smooth aerodynamic join to the screen/body interface. because i think that the way the 1000 screen mounts is just horrible, splitties are better looking in that respect.
As it now seems that my daughter has warmed to the idea of painting the car the Black that it was originally in 1957 I think the interface between the screen, adhesive and body colour will work well in aesthetic terms.

One extra benefit will of course be an increase of the car's torsional rigidity of which you can never have too much if you want the car to handle well IMHO.

[Innovator]

I have a bonded in flush fit lamminated screen on my Minor.

However we had to move the mounting flange outboard so the glass would be flush.

I used black silicon to hold my screen in.

One mistake I did make was to spray the border of the glass with matt black. So the screen is effectively bonded in with the paint stuck to the glass. It has seperated in places.

Ideally the black surround is sandwiched between the laminates but then you are getting into complex custom glass instead of cut glass.

[Iain Hall]

Can you post some pictures Innovator?
by how much did you move the mounting flange and did you make it any wider?

[MarkyB]

Windscreen glass is funny stuff, even now I remember when me and my dad replaced the screen on a Triumph herald.
I could actually stand on the screen when it was out, even a small jump didn't break it.
However, a very slight tap on the edge with something metal shattered it completely, it was quite amazing and made a great impression.
I don't think that torsional rigidity is an issue with the Minor shell, if it was I'd have my doubts about how much bonding the screen in would add.

I do recall being told that Mark 1 Ford Sierras were a bit floppy until the bumpers were fitted which put me right off them!

[ian.mcdougall]

Bumpers were plastic so don't think they would make the car more ridgid but the bonded screens added to to stiffness of the body . When the Sierra first came out we did a few body changes as in an accident the bumpers did not look bad but in a frontal impact the floor around the gearbox tunnel used to distort I think then fords put extra stiffening in but I may be wrong and talking out my backside as it was a while ago and the brain cells are slowly disappearing

[Innovator]

Can you post some pictures Innovator?
by how much did you move the mounting flange and did you make it any wider?

Pics here ..... http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website% ... _page1.htm also look on the "Next page"

6mm glass was used so the lip was moved outboard how ever much this required. I do not think the lip was made any wider.

If you use silicon or even better windscreen adhesive the glass will never pop out.

[Innovator]

I don't think that torsional rigidity is an issue with the Minor shell, if it was I'd have my doubts about how much bonding the screen in would add.

Having a bonded screen will make a difference to the torsional ridigity of the the cockpit area of the shell. Any open, non triangulated area is a potential weak point for torsion.
When I built a model to test torsional ridgity I was surprised at what a difference putting gussets in each corner of the screen made.

Modern cars use the screen to increase the torsional of the shell.

[MarkyB]

The rigidity of the Mk1 Sierra may well have been an urban myth, as you say it was a long time ago.
Does a standard saloon, not convertible, lack rigidity? It would be interesting to run a simulation like they do when designing modern cars.

[Iain Hall]

Innovator is right about torsional rigidity. When I got my Locost clubbie approved here I had to do a beaming and torsion test which basically puts the car chassis into a test rig that measures the amount of twist and deflection under load and its rather surprising how just small changes to the structure make a big difference to the the strength of a car.

As It stands I plan to use the proper window adhesive rather than silicone because it gives a stronger bond and when it has cured it looks much more like rubber

[ian.mcdougall]

Silicone will rust the area under the bond and cause problems later if you have to repaint around the screens also dont forget to use the correct primers for the bond there are clear and black primers available

[Iain Hall]

I will be getting the appropriate advice from professional window fitters and I may even get the pros to fit the glass if the cost is reasonable.
I will have to find out if they can fit the front glass flush to the the body-line without adding to the Lip or if I will need to ad to or move the lip.
I can think of a way that it could be done from using some temporary packers to hold the glass in the right place and then back filling part of the gap from the inside of the car and when that has cured take out the packing pieces and fill all of the remaining gaps and smooth off inside and out should not be that difficult. I have had to remove some glass fixed in a modern car and believe me it sticks better than the brown stuff to a blanket! To be honest I doubt that water will have any chance of ever getting in to rot the window frame again.

[Yagman]

On the subject of glass does anyone know where I could get some door glass cut for my Moggi ? It's been roof chopped and need custom fit side glass ?

[Innovator]

Any glass supplier.

If you want laminated then that is easy for them to cut. If you wish to have toughened then it will have to be cut then heat treated and will take longer to do.

Take along an MDF template.