Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi folks. It's fog season again in Cornwall !
Thinking of fitting a rear fog light after all these years , how about these new Led bulbs?
Can I use a red one at the back and not have to fit a relay because they draw less power?
Any help would be great!
Happy New year.

Its always fog season once you get past Newbridge on the way to Pendeen!

Yes, they only take milliamps.

John ;-)

True, we do live in an area with a lot of moisture!!
Folk didn't drive quite so close to the back end in the fog as they do now.
Any ideas how bright a led bulb before it's too much for the system, I fitted an alternator
last year.

I wouldn't bother with a relay for a Rear Fog lamp anyway, it's only a single 21 W lamp, no more than another brake light.
It's not like fitting a pair of Front Fogs which are typically 55W each.

You've got a van, if I recall correctly, so space for one (or two).

The legal limit for a rear facing high intensity lamp, i.e. Brake or Fog lamp, is 21 W each, or the equivalent in Lux for LED lamps.
Just be a little wary of LED ones as the sellers often don't mention the LUX, you might find you're buying an unknown level of 'light', either insufficient or too much...
Personally, I would steer clear of the long thin style usually sold as High Level Brake lights, because of the single line illumination; a block of LED Lamps e.g. 3 rows of 4, would give a better intensity over a distance.

Thanks, will do some googling on types of LED bulb , I guess they are a swap for the old bayonet type?

Lucas made an L494 fog lamp.

surfergirl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:19 pm Thanks, will do some googling on types of LED bulb , I guess they are a swap for the old bayonet type?

Hi
Depends of you're going to be a dedicated LED unit or a conventional one and fit an LED Lamp to it.

This LED Unit for example: https://www.screwfix.com/p/maypole-10-3 ... lsrc=aw.ds

A thing to watch with using replacement LED Lamps is the lamp orientation, because of the way LEDs are so directional compared to filament lamps.
So with a Minor Saloon for example, the rear lamps are mounted side on when the lamp is viewed, so you need a LED that shines sideways, whereas with a Traveller/Van, the rear lamps are viewed end on.
So this sort of lamp wouldn't be great viewed side on, but end on is fine.

If using an LED behind a Red lens, you're better with a Red LED.

JOWETTJAVELIN wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:58 pm Lucas made an L494 fog lamp.

And you can still get them if you want to pay over £70....

Reversing Light ones with the clear lens are about half the price.

Has a rummage around in the shed!
Found a 3 inch Lucas light unit, not sure what it's from, but with a red LED in it, maybe?!

surfergirl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:00 pm Has a rummage around in the shed!
Found a 3 inch Lucas light unit, not sure what it's from, but with a red LED in it, maybe?!

Just depends on the size of lamp in it.
From the photo it looks like it could be a Lucas 691 front side light, it just depends on the size/type of lamp it has.
it's hard to tell from the photo, but if that's a regular BA15S size holder, then it'd do the job.

Yes it has L691 stamped on it, not sure wot it came from.

surfergirl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:00 pm Found a 3 inch Lucas light unit, not sure what it's from, but with a red LED in it, maybe?!

The Lucas L691 / L692 were available with clear, red or amber lenses, and I believe fitted to various vehicles. Spare parts and different colour lenses are still easily available.

Just a word of caution... Take care when using some lighting units with plastic lenses as fog lamps, if they aren't specifically designed as such. When fitted with a 21W bulb, illuminated continuously for some time, they can overheat and distort the plastic lens. Not usually a problem with LED bulbs of course

The L691 with different Red/Amber/Clear lens has been on many vehicles since the 60s.
I believe in Red & Amber it was the rear lamps on the Hilman Imps in the 60s, and in clear was front sidelights on civilian Land Rover Defenders in the 80s/90s (I don't think it was on MOD ones).
Lots of other UK classics in between, such as front indicators on Lotus Europa 65-75 ish.

Bulbs arrived in the post yesterday. Nice and bright, will post a pic of the light fitted next week. Hooked it up to a battery just to see.

Dear Surfgirl,

Is that a red LED bulb behind a clear (i.e. non red) glass? The centre looks a bit white but the reflection around the lamp looks v red; a trick of photography?

I ask, 'cos I'm considering changing my rear light bulbs on my Trav to LEDs to make them brighter and I'm also following you in fitting a fog lamp. (Like your van I suppose, my rear-lights look from behind like a pair of dim fag-ends and being fitted low down can be lost in motorway spray, etc.) I've a period "Wipac" fog-light that has red glazing, of course, and I'm seeking advice from our community on whether I should fit red or white LEDs bulbs to it and my rear-lights. ESM, a firm of whom I've a strong regard, say that I should fit white but somewhere I've read that the whiter "bleeds through" and that you should fit the same colour LED as the glazing that's it's behind because the glazing, of course, is designed to pass precisely the same colour that it's made of. But I suspect this is an area where experience is the real arbiter.

Comments anyone? Regards from MikeN.

Mike
LEDs give that appearance when photographed.

Finding a suitable LED for a Tail/Brake Lamp isn't straight forward.
You might be interested in the video I made back in 2019 when I was comparing different LED Tail/Brake lights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHTzLepE6-A&t

The 1st attempt at finding a dual function lamp was here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87N6SB6Thfk&t


Here's the technical explanation regarding Red v White LEDs behind Red lenses. https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/blogs/ ... red-lenses

Thank you Geoberni,
That classic Car LED link gives the site that I remember (and one that you gave us before?) so a red LED is the one I would want. But if I've understood your them correctly, your videos suggest that the LEDs are no brighter than the orthodox filament bulbs so perhaps I should stay with the latter. Have I understood it right? I should say that I've already employed an idea of dear old Bmeccosse (of blessed memory), that of putting behind the bulbs pieces of shiny ali sweet wrappers to act as reflectors. But I'd still like the rear-lights to be a lot brighter.
MikeN.
PS Sorry to high jack your thread, Surfgirl.

No worries,
I've noticed a lot of modern cars use clear rear lens at the rear and then have a coloured led. I've gone for a red LED behind a clear lens to try and get maximum brightness.
I've also noticed on sunny days modern cars have the indicator in the front headlight and this can be hard to see when the sun catches the clear glass.
Years ago when we had MOT tests the chap at the garage would spend an age comparing the colour of the lens and if one was faded he would fail the van. I can remember getting some glass paint we had for stained glass and painting the inside of the amber lens, took it back for a retest and passed!

MikeNash wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:38 pm ..if I've understood your them correctly, your videos suggest that the LEDs are no brighter than the orthodox filament bulbs so perhaps I should stay with the latter. Have I understood it right?

Basically yes, regarding rear/side lights, they are not any brighter, but they can be worse if you get the wrong one.
The positives are longer life and lower wattage.
Vehicle lighting is a bit of a legal minefield; fortunately, our cars are so old many recent regulations do not apply.
The key thing is not to have rear marker lights that are so bright, they prevent brake lights being seen when used.

LEDs in the front give a similar illumination level to Halogen lamps, but at only about 10-15% of the Wattage of the Halogen.