Horn and indicators

[Swampy]

Afternoon all I've got a wiring diagram but something not quite right fitted new bulbs indicator stalk flasher unit because there wasn't any on the car all the lights work OK can't get drivers side indicator to work or the horn the brown wire from the indicator stalk can't find a home for it any help please

[simmitc]

I'm sorry, but I am struggling to understand exactly what you've done, is there any chance of some punctuation, please?

What year is the car? The wiring changed over time. If you have fitted a new indicator stalk, is it the type with a horn push on the end, or a green lens with a repeater lamp for the indicators?

Do you have a multimeter? Very useful for tracing faults. If everything is working except right hand indicators, then it is likely that you have a loose connection in the circuit with green/white wires.

[Swampy]

Thank for your reply as I'm dyslexic it's not that easy to type out some things but thanks again and you're sarcastic comments I'll try harder next time. Regards swampy

[dudload]

i don't think he was being sarcastic, it really is hard to understand what you're asking there!

[svenedin]

I too do not think Simon was being sarcastic.

If it is a new "Lucas" branded indicator stalk, my answer regarding the wiring colours is in this thread:


viewtopic.php?p=689772&hilit=indicator#p689772

Hope it is of some use.

Stephen

[simmitc]

Swampy, as others have written, I was not being sarcastic. I apologised that I could not understand your description, but I still took a guess at the issue and offered some advice that might be helpful. I also asked some questions to help identify the problem. You have chosen to not provide the answers, so there's nothing else I can offer. I hope that Stephen's answer solves your problem.

[Swampy]

Sorry. its a 1976 with a lucas indicator with a flashing green bulb it came with no indicator or lights and other bits missing. So far everything is working apart from the indicator and the horn although the horn did work before i fitted the indicator stalk I've still got a brown wire from the indicator but can't find a connection in the main loom. Thanks John.

[svenedin]

Sorry. its a 1976 with a lucas indicator with a flashing green bulb it came with no indicator or lights and other bits missing. So far everything is working apart from the indicator and the horn although the horn did work before i fitted the indicator stalk I've still got a brown wire from the indicator but can't find a connection in the main loom. Thanks John.

Is it a brown wire with a black trace? If yes, that joins purple wire with a black trace in the loom. It is for the horn. See my link to the other thread about this.

Stephen

[Swampy]

Evening no its plain brown wire no trace. John

[svenedin]

These are the colours of the wires from a new Lucas branded indicator assembly (supplied by ESM) I fitted about 6 months ago.

Are your wires different colours to these?

IMG_8966.jpeg (1.66 MiB) Viewed 883 times

[svenedin]

If the colours match my post above I have made this conversion table. Hope this helps.

‎Lucas New Indicator colours.‎1.jpeg (131.99 KiB) Viewed 880 times

[Swampy]

Evening all thanks to Steven your last message was a great help indicators now work but still no horn. After a lot of sorting out wires that had been added for other stuff cleared out all the rubbish indicators now work
Checked all connections and earth points horn does work but not from the steering. Another quick question I've got a water temperature sensor fitted but can't find any trace of any wire to it .

[svenedin]

Evening all thanks to Steven your last message was a great help indicators now work but still no horn. After a lot of sorting out wires that had been added for other stuff cleared out all the rubbish indicators now work
Checked all connections and earth points horn does work but not from the steering. Another quick question I've got a water temperature sensor fitted but can't find any trace of any wire to it .

Have you got the wire coming up through the steering column tube that ends in a bullet connector? That wire makes contact with the horn push. The other contact is a “shoe” on the indicator assembly that should push against a copper slip ring on the steering column. If the shoe contact is not pressing hard enough on the slip ring there will be too much electrical resistance and the horn will not work. Same if the slip ring is very dirty. Also make sure the indicator assembly is fitted properly. There is a little peg on the inside of the bit that clamps on to the steering column. That must go in the corresponding hole in the steering column.

Regarding the water temperature sensor, this was not originally fitted to Minors so it is something somebody fitted themselves. They may have used any colour wire or the wire may be missing entirely. You could run a new wire from the sensor to your gauge. The correct colour for this wire is green with blue trace (https://www.farrellsgarage.com/tech_ass ... BS-AU7.pdf) When owners fit equipment aftermarket they rarely use the correct colour code and often use any wire they happen to have on hand. This presents problems for the next owner!

Once you have the horn working your next awkward job is to get the indicator self-cancelling to work correctly......No working horn is an MoT fail but self-cancelling indicators are just nice to have.

Steering column centre horn contact

IMG_8546.jpeg (1.48 MiB) Viewed 845 times

Steering column slip ring and "shoe" horn contact

IMG_8569.jpeg (402.43 KiB) Viewed 845 times

Alignment peg that fits in a dimple on the steering column

IMG_8553.jpeg (1.73 MiB) Viewed 845 times

[Swampy]

Evening everything you've mentioned is fine all clean still no joy. Time to call it a day might try again tomorrow . Thanks for your help it's time for a beer. Regards John.

[svenedin]

Evening everything you've mentioned is fine all clean still no joy. Time to call it a day might try again tomorrow . Thanks for your help it's time for a beer. Regards John.

Enjoy the beer and in the morning take a look at this thread, especially the reply from Simon (Simmitc)

viewtopic.php?p=689883&hilit=horn+wiring#p689883

[Swampy]

Morning all let's try again the horn works when connected to a feed from the battery but when reconnected back to the car it blows the fuse. I can't find my meter that's grown legs since yesterday . I'm guessing it's a wiring issue somewhere would the horn still work with a problem with it. Regards John

[svenedin]

Morning all let's try again the horn works when connected to a feed from the battery but when reconnected back to the car it blows the fuse. I can't find my meter that's grown legs since yesterday . I'm guessing it's a wiring issue somewhere would the horn still work with a problem with it. Regards John

Does it blow the fuse when you press the horn push or just instantly when the horn is connected?

One of the connections to the horn is earth and the other is the live feed which is permanently live regardless of ignition on or not. Which polarity depends on whether the car is positive or negative earth. It sounds to me like there is a short to earth from the live feed somewhere on that wire's travels. Given what you said about the wiring being a mess from the previous owner perhaps they have actually connected the live to earth by mistake?

Stephen

[Swampy]

Afternoon yes as soon as you press the horn button the fuse blows its not the original horn would that make any difference .regards John

[svenedin]

Afternoon yes as soon as you press the horn button the fuse blows its not the original horn would that make any difference .regards John

Perhaps the horn draws too much current? Some horns operate via a relay but not the standard Lucas 9H windtone. ESM sells a suitable aftermarket horn.

[geoberni]

Afternoon yes as soon as you press the horn button the fuse blows its not the original horn would that make any difference .regards John

Electrics Basics I am not going the refer to Pos and Neg here, just Supply and Earth.
A Fuse blows when there is not enough resistance in the circuit to limit the current flow through the wiring.
The Horn circuit is designed differently from most others.
'Normal circuits' switch the supply to the item you want to make work.
The Horn has the supply to it all the time from the battery, what the switch does is connect the earth.
The fact that the fuse is OK until you press the button means the wiring is OK, but there is not enough resistance to stop the fuse rupturing when you connect the earth.

If you can find your meter and put it on resistance, my guess is that instead of finding a few Ohms across the 2 connections on the Horn, it's a dead short.
Another thing you could do is remove the Horn and fit a lamp in place of it.
If the lamp comes on when you push the horn button, then the Horn is duff.