Bought a moggy

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jagnut66
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby jagnut66 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:40 am

I’ve driven another car one and it seems that the gearbox on my is geared to the point that it’s at full revs at 60 50 but shoots up hills
I agree with the others, whatever you do gearbox-wise, it would pay to make sure that when they fitted the 1098 they changed the axle / diff to suit. You need a 4.22 diff for the 1098, then you should get over 70 out of her.
The later axle casing has the filler plug in the back of it, whereas the earlier one does not, on earlier diffs the filler plug was in the side of the diff.
If you still decide to change the gearbox, advertise the 1098 one on here, you'll find plenty of takers.
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- on axle stands needing more welding......
1955 Series 2: Traveller: "Elsie May" -- on the road and enjoying her 'as is' for now but I see work ahead......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- driven back from Llangollen in Wales

MorrisJohn
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby MorrisJohn » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:30 pm

I just sold a Minor with a five speed box. It worked well but I prefer the standard four speed box on my current Minor. If you fit a five speed you will lose some of the character and charm of your car. Consider it carefully.

Rover2003
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby Rover2003 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:11 pm

jagnut66 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:40 am
I’ve driven another car one and it seems that the gearbox on my is geared to the point that it’s at full revs at 60 50 but shoots up hills
I agree with the others, whatever you do gearbox-wise, it would pay to make sure that when they fitted the 1098 they changed the axle / diff to suit. You need a 4.22 diff for the 1098, then you should get over 70 out of her.
The later axle casing has the filler plug in the back of it, whereas the earlier one does not, on earlier diffs the filler plug was in the side of the diff.
If you still decide to change the gearbox, advertise the 1098 one on here, you'll find plenty of takers.
Best wishes,
Mike.
yea I'll have a look what ever I do I'll keep the gearbox for my van

MCYorks
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby MCYorks » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:59 pm

Rover2003 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:10 pm
About a month ago I got a moggy not my first but my first split just wondering does anyone know the car its a 1956 one and the original plate is POY8
Really nice looking split screen. At least you appear to have some history if you know the original registration. Do you have any old documentation or details for the previous owners? It can certainly be helpful to confirm the history. Looks like the original POY8 plate is currently on a retention certificate.
Rover2003 wrote: I’ve driven another car one and it seems that the gearbox on my is geared to the point that it’s at full revs at 60 50 but shoots up hills
If it still has the original 803cc diff, then it's something like 5.37:1. That's rather low geared for a 1098cc in my opinion, but would explain the full revs at 60 scenario. I had a 1098cc fitted with the 4.55 diff and that did 70 mph no problem :wink:

kevin s
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby kevin s » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:45 pm

For the gearing you can get a similar spread of ratios as 5 speed with a longer midget diff, but that does leave larger gaps between the gears, whether that is a problem will depend upon how the engine is tuned and where and how you drive.
A 5 speed can give you something close to the original 4 speeds then one on top some would say this retains the original character and just adds something, others like the non synchro first and simplicity of the 4 speed.
The type 9 should be virtually indestructible in a minor, I have been running the one in a car nigh on with 3 times the power for the last 25 years. They are getting thin on the ground so finding a good one may be a problem and the ratios are not fantastic.

I have been looking at using a Mx5 5 speed, the ratios are better, this is a comparison with the standard box the ratios are actually better suited to the minor and it could probably be used with a shorter axle ratio as it doesn't even get into 5th on the optimum tractive effort line shown.

one day I may even get it in the car rather than a spreadsheet!
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (42.34 KiB) Viewed 304 times

Rover2003
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby Rover2003 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 pm

MCYorks wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:59 pm
Rover2003 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:10 pm
About a month ago I got a moggy not my first but my first split just wondering does anyone know the car its a 1956 one and the original plate is POY8
Really nice looking split screen. At least you appear to have some history if you know the original registration. Do you have any old documentation or details for the previous owners? It can certainly be helpful to confirm the history. Looks like the original POY8 plate is currently on a retention certificate.
Rover2003 wrote: I’ve driven another car one and it seems that the gearbox on my is geared to the point that it’s at full revs at 60 50 but shoots up hills
If it still has the original 803cc diff, then it's something like 5.37:1. That's rather low geared for a 1098cc in my opinion, but would explain the full revs at 60 scenario. I had a 1098cc fitted with the 4.55 diff and that did 70 mph no problem :wink:
I do know it was a club car and have a bit of the name.

I’ll change gearbox then
Last edited by Rover2003 on Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rover2003
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby Rover2003 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:41 pm

Got this
Attachments
6A8AB1C7-F497-4B55-A117-FA07FE902BC6.jpeg
6A8AB1C7-F497-4B55-A117-FA07FE902BC6.jpeg (231.76 KiB) Viewed 287 times

irmscher
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby irmscher » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:46 pm

5 speed gearbox ? just change the differential a gearbox with your small engine wont help

irmscher
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby irmscher » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:47 pm

Harewood is Leeds Yorkshire

Rover2003
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby Rover2003 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:45 am

irmscher wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:47 pm
Harewood is Leeds Yorkshire
Yea I live in a town near Leeds the car came from wetherby and was used as a daily up to August around Harrogate from the parking tickets it’s got

jagnut66
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby jagnut66 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:45 pm

Got this
I wonder if they are the ones who stripped it of its original registration and if they still have it??..................
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- on axle stands needing more welding......
1955 Series 2: Traveller: "Elsie May" -- on the road and enjoying her 'as is' for now but I see work ahead......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- driven back from Llangollen in Wales

myoldjalopy
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby myoldjalopy » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:03 pm

irmscher wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:46 pm
5 speed gearbox ? just change the differential a gearbox with your small engine wont help
Which is what people are saying, but the OP still says he's going to change the gearbox! Check the diff first and if its one for an 803cc, swap it out for a 1098 one. Then it will perform like a normal 1098cc car. Sticking in a 5-speed box with an 803cc diff is not a good idea.

Rover2003
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby Rover2003 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:26 pm

jagnut66 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:45 pm
Got this
I wonder if they are the ones who stripped it of its original registration and if they still have it??..................
Best wishes,
Mike.
Nah different owners guy bought cause he liked the plate

Rover2003
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby Rover2003 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:27 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:03 pm
irmscher wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:46 pm
5 speed gearbox ? just change the differential a gearbox with your small engine wont help
Which is what people are saying, but the OP still says he's going to change the gearbox! Check the diff first and if its one for an 803cc, swap it out for a 1098 one. Then it will perform like a normal 1098cc car. Sticking in a 5-speed box with an 803cc diff is not a good idea.
If it’s as easy as putting a later gearbox and axle one I’ll just do that

myoldjalopy
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby myoldjalopy » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:34 pm

I would hope that whoever fitted the 1098cc engine at least fitted a 1098cc box - but one never knows :-? Its easy to check though - the 1098cc box has a 'ribbed' casing.

jagnut66
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby jagnut66 » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:34 pm

For anyone reading who's unsure, this is a 'ribbed' case gearbox:
1098 'ribbed' case gearbox.JPG
1098 'ribbed' case gearbox.JPG (1.29 MiB) Viewed 174 times
The earlier gearboxes, described as 'smooth' cased, were just that, namely no ribbing.
The position of the gearstick can also differ, although some have re-engineered the later gearboxes to use the earlier gearstick, so their cars interior looks standard.
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- on axle stands needing more welding......
1955 Series 2: Traveller: "Elsie May" -- on the road and enjoying her 'as is' for now but I see work ahead......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- driven back from Llangollen in Wales

geoberni
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby geoberni » Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:58 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:34 pm
I would hope that whoever fitted the 1098cc engine at least fitted a 1098cc box - but one never knows :-? Its easy to check though - the 1098cc box has a 'ribbed' casing.
But as the saying goes, 'People do the strangest things'.
My car (SII '55), according to the paperwork that came with it, had been fitted with an 803 Smooth gearbox that had been rebuilt to S3/948 gearing. I have the receipt that says so.
The engine, according to a garage that had examined it, was a 948 Goldseal.
This had enabled the then owner to have the engine number/size changed with DVLA.
From discussions here on the forums 2-3 years ago, the actual Block and Head numbers show that the engine is actually a 1098, so I have a bit of a mismatch.
Do I curse the owner 20 years ago, or the incompetence of the garage that was incapable of reading the part numbers?
Did the garage just give the owner what he wanted to get the Log Book changed and did the owner buy the engine in good faith from someone who had misidentified it?
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

jagnut66
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby jagnut66 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:01 am

If it’s as easy as putting a later gearbox and axle one I’ll just do that
While your in 'fettling & tinkering' mode save yourself a future headache (literally) and fit one of these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251389972380 ... 1438.l9372
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- on axle stands needing more welding......
1955 Series 2: Traveller: "Elsie May" -- on the road and enjoying her 'as is' for now but I see work ahead......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- driven back from Llangollen in Wales

MCYorks
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby MCYorks » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:21 am

Rover2003 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:41 pm
Got this
What a great bit of history. So much information about the car on one bit of paper, so good it hasn't be binned or lost :D Things like that are priceless and really give a vehicle its character. Unfortunately, because the plate has been changed, any curious previous owners would be unaware the car survives.

Kirk Deighton isn't a big place. Maybe the previous owner or someone else who remembers the car back in the 90s, still lives there. It might be worth posting a letter or putting a query on the village facebook page, politely requesting any history about car. If you're lucky you may get a reply or even some old photos of the moggy.
jagnut66 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:45 pm
Got this
I wonder if they are the ones who stripped it of its original registration and if they still have it??..................
Best wishes,
Mike.
Like I said, the original plate is on a retention certificate. So there may be an opportunity to buy it back again, if so desired.

geoberni
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Re: Bought a moggy

Postby geoberni » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:31 am

POY 8 is available from someone, but it'll cost £5K, plus 20% VAT, plus transfer fees.
https://www.nationalnumbers.co.uk/searc ... h_key=poy8

Having a laugh...
Basil the 1955 series II

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