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POMMReg
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Re: Newbie

Post by POMMReg »

Easiest way to determine 60 or 62 is by alloy body tag, by mid '62 (CKD en mass ceased) and only the metal one remained.....2 holes or 3 or 4?

Wish the Potteries site would cover body/engine nos., most cases a LOT more accurate.
Further investigations uncovered it was an inside job!!
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

POMMReg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:07 pm Body code starts with a 3 it's later than 1960.

Date on wiper motor?
No date I can see on wiper(replacement unit?) I think
Body code Z32062 R222717

could you please tell me what this means
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

simmitc wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:36 am Bill, I can't quite make out from the pictures you've posted so far, but are your wipers working as "clap hands" or parallel?

Also are the switches for your lights and wipers pull on or flick down for on?

Looking at the fuse box, are the terminals screw connections or spade connections?

Don't give out the full chassis number, but does it start MAS3 or MAS5?

The car might have been resprayed, so you could look behind the glove boxes and other trim to see if there's any evidence of an earlier colour/

You could ask the DVLA for a history of the vehicle. They won;t give you previous keepres, but should be ale to tell you when (if) the number was changed and what it was before.

None of this really matters from the point of view of enjoying the car, it's mainly a matter of interest. Over the years, many cars have been modified either because worn out parts were changed for "better" ones form a scrap yard, or because individual owners preferred a different style. Add to that the changeover from one design to another when the factory used up old parts or started on new ones, and there is bound to be some confusion!
The fuse box has screw connections, clap hands wipers, pull switches, behind glove box is blue paint.I have original registration as 512 EBJ noted on old mot giving original cherished and current reg numbers.
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Regards Bill
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

POMMReg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:42 pm Easiest way to determine 60 or 62 is by alloy body tag, by mid '62 (CKD en mass ceased) and only the metal one remained.....2 holes or 3 or 4?

Wish the Potteries site would cover body/engine nos., most cases a LOT more accurate.
It's a 2 screw tag
20220122_134217.jpg
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Regards Bill
ManyMinors
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Re: Newbie

Post by ManyMinors »

That isn't a 1960 car. The body number is quite a bit later than it should be I'm afraid. 2 or 3 years probably.

As I said before: Check for the stamped chassis number and dates on every electrical item (fusebox, control box, switches, dynamo, starter, distributor etc etc). Everything is dated and although some items will have been replaced of course, much will be original to the car still. All the glass also carries a date code.
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

ManyMinors wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:48 pm That isn't a 1960 car. The body number is quite a bit later than it should be I'm afraid. 2 or 3 years probably.
Not an issue, I just trying to establish the year, it's had so many upgrades anyway.
I assume can't be 63 as original registration has no date letter so possibly 62.
When did trafalger blue come out on 4 door because looking behind dash it appear to have always been blue or a bare shell respray.
Your 62 maybe correct amongst the files I found a valuation by Charles Ware in 1994 that said 1962, the subsequent valuation say 1960 as does current v5 perhaps this is were the error started.
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ManyMinors
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Re: Newbie

Post by ManyMinors »

It all depends upon whether the body number and the chassis number tie up. You haven't given any indication of what the chassis number is but if the V5 states that your car was first registered in 1960 and it has a 1960 chassis number attached to it, then the car you have would seem not to be the original car.

You have already stated the original registration number. That registration number was issued in 1960.

Trafalgar Blue was not available at that time. Towards the end of 1961 I think. Probably at the same time as the duotone interior which is shown on the door cards.
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

ManyMinors wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:41 pm It all depends upon whether the body number and the chassis number tie up. You haven't given any indication of what the chassis number is but if the V5 states that your car was first registered in 1960 and it has a 1960 chassis number attached to it, then the car you have would seem not to be the original car.

You have already stated the original registration number. That registration number was issued in 1960.

Trafalgar Blue was not available at that time. Towards the end of 1961 I think. Probably at the same time as the duotone interior which is shown on the door cards.
The chassis number is only on the screwed plate 813xxx I can't find anything stamped in the bulkhead but have a heater duct cut through where I think it should be located.

How did you find the original registration was issued in 1960 it's now on a 1967
Going to Gaydon records. next week so trying to gather as much info as I can prior to visit.
Thanks for all the info
Regards Bill
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Re: Newbie

Post by ManyMinors »

No, the heater fresh air intake isn't close to the stamped chassis number. See picture attached.
Your car should have the number you quote stamped in the same position. The number in my photo is from a late 1960 car. Your number is earlier so that dates your car - or your chassis number at least - to an earlier car than that. Your chassis number would seem to be from an earlier car than the car in your photographs. If you can find the stamped chassis number on the bulkhead, that will reveal the identity of the car you have bought.

The registration series *** EBJ was issued in Suffolk in 1960. Clearly it would be impossible to register a car in 1960 which was not built for another 2 or 3 years.
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geoberni
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Re: Newbie

Post by geoberni »

Bill
I imagine there could be some deviation in where the Chassis/Body number is stamped, I have seen some people say they found it on the drivers floor, but those are usually lost when floor panels have been replaced.
Things may have been different with the SII cars, but Basil's is nowhere near as small and neat as the one shown by ManyMinors, however it is in the same general area.
It is stamped with characters about half an inch high and the whole number is about 6+ inches end to end. it's quite hard to make it out under several layers of paint.
Look behind the wiring here...
Chassis Number.JPG
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Basil the 1955 series II

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ManyMinors
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Re: Newbie

Post by ManyMinors »

geoberni wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:02 am Bill
I imagine there could be some deviation in where the Chassis/Body number is stamped, I have seen some people say they found it on the drivers floor,
The chassis number is stamped into the front RH floor pan on later cars - from about 1964? It should be on the bulkhead as shown, on this car.
It should be fairly clear to find and read although on the car in my photograph it had been painted and undersealed over!
It is this stamped number that is required to positively date the car concerned. The number revealed can then be researched at the Gaydon Museum. The screwed on plate is too easily removed and refitted.
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Re: Newbie

Post by irmscher »

Nice car you have :)
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

Thanks for all the advice guys. I don't care if this is a genuine 1960 or not, I bought it because I liked it not because of its year. It came with a massive file of history back to 1994 with all the work and modification done over many years. If it's the wrong body shell or some sort of false identity it has been like this for a very long time and through a couple of long term owners who both had the work carried out at a minor specialist. This includes several years of valuation reports from Charles Ware who never commented on any issue. It's very far from original with lots of updates all documented, and visible, to make a usable classic car for driving, not showing.Originality is not my thing.
Out of interest I'll post my findings from Gaydon records next week.
Thanks again for all the info :)
Regards Bill
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Re: Newbie

Post by irmscher »

Bill most have not got the numbers on anymore due to welding etc .The history is a nice thing to have and use as a reference :D
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

irmscher wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:32 pm Bill most have not got the numbers on anymore due to welding etc .The history is a nice thing to have and use as a reference :D
Thanks, roll on spring so I can use it 8)

What model do you have?
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Re: Newbie

Post by taupe »

Yes those are definately leather seat covers...use some saddle soap to clean then some hide food to soften them and stop cracks and splits.. :D :D
POMMReg
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Re: Newbie

Post by POMMReg »

Seatbelt anchorage intro started prior to VIN stated in books...cannot use this to ID build date.

LCV change 948 to 1098 cab codes "Z32". (9/62),

Think the DP Mk1's were "Z33", "Z35" floorpan VIN stamp, although, MAT5's body codes lagged behind after 1961.

Don't have book with me to cross reference body number, so bear with me.....can get awfully confusing at times.
Further investigations uncovered it was an inside job!!
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Newbie

Post by Bill_qaz »

taupe wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:38 pm Yes those are definately leather seat covers...use some saddle soap to clean then some hide food to soften them and stop cracks and splits.. :D :D
Bought some auto glym leather cleaner to try, they are quite supple just have some dirt and marks. Thanks for the advice
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ManyMinors
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Re: Newbie

Post by ManyMinors »

POMMReg wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:50 pm Seatbelt anchorage intro started prior to VIN stated in books...cannot use this to ID build date.
All factory changes can be used to build up a reasonably accurate build date.

The change point for this is quoted in the original manufacturer's "body service parts list". Are you suggesting that this is incorrect? Either way, a 1960 car will not have factory fitted seat belt mounts. A post-1961 car will though.
Similarly, A 1960 Minor will have the fittings for semaphore indicators and a post-1961 car will not. A relatively small number of cars will have both.

The important thing prior to carrying out any research at Gaydon is to find the stamped chassis number (car number) which originally was stamped clearly into the bulkhead on cars of this period. Geoberni seems to think that this stamped number could be 6 inches long but I disagree. The one I pictured earlier - on a 1960 car - is less than 2 inches long and stamped into the small area between the bonnet pull rod and the throttle cable holder :wink:
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Re: Newbie

Post by ManyMinors »

POMMReg wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:50 pm LCV change 948 to 1098 cab codes "Z32". (9/62),

Think the DP Mk1's were "Z33", "Z35" floorpan VIN stamp, although, MAT5's body codes lagged behind after 1961.

Don't have book with me to cross reference body number, so bear with me.....can get awfully confusing at times.
I think we will probably conclude that the car in the photos dates from late 1962 or 1963 prior to the change to tanden wipers and the deletion of the DB10 unit in October of that year. The body number quoted is later than that of an early 1962 car I have and much later than my late 1960 car which has a later chassis number than this car is wearing. It could likely be an early 1098 (MAS5) car couldn't it.

Although the owner says that Charles Ware never mentioned any issue, he did date the car as "1962" didn't he.
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