Moggy Prices Rocket

[billlobban]

Can we now expect the price of Morris Minors to go through the roof following the government's decision to extend the scrappage system to Toyota's. First it was the fly by wire throttle now it's the anti-lock brakes.
I just love modern technology - dont you
When my throttle cable snapped I used the conveniently placed hand throttle (choke) and connected it to the throttle and I appear to have all the anti-lock brakes I'm ever likely to need under my right foot

I was impressed, however, that the head bummer of Toyota appeared live on breakfast TV to explain the position despite the moron interviewer thinking he was the next Jeremy Paxman. Can you imagine that happening in the BMC/Leyland days - they'd have to have run a new channel exclusively to report the latest faults

[Faceplant]

i saw that interview too, was funny when the interviewer said 'can you tell the prius owners at home they will be safe going over speed bumps?' i think he missed the point that brakes were failing on ice and extremely bad roads!

I totally argee though, I have owned new cars for the last 5 years and had nothing but electrical problems. Engine management, airbag and fault lights are a major pain in the XXXX, and the only way to get it fixed is paying over the odds for someone to plug a computer into it and then wait 2 weeks for the light to return. It seems the more sensors and tech that goes into cars the more there is to go wrong.

i dont have much in my moggie, but what there works just fine!

DT

[dunketh]

Imagine the irony.
Mr Smith turns up at the Toyota dealership in his Minor, life savings in hand.
"I'd like a nice new car. I'll get 2k off the price and these new cars are good for the environment too* "
(* Mr Smith knows nothing about battery chemicals, Toyota logistics or manufacturing)
10 miles down the road his new prius is in a ditch whilst his Morris has just been squashed onto a low loader.

[Blaketon]

I am surprised that Toyota have fallen foul of this, as to be fair, the Japanese usually develop things more thoroughly than some I could mention. Given their vast experience in electronics, they have generally made a better job of applying it to cars than many.

That said, I still wouldn't want one and I feel modern cars have far too many (Weight adding don’t forget) gadgets and are unnecessarily complex. I heard an item on the news where they said that Toyota use many common parts in their range (Which makes sense), so it may not only be the Toymoto Pious that is affected. I must say that it couldn't have happened to a better car . It maybe a hybrid milkfloat/car but nobody mentions how it needs new batteries fairly regularly and the environmental impact of that.

What makes me laugh is the way “Pleb” motorists assume “Old” cars are unreliable. Old bangers may be unreliable because they are worn out and not maintained but the days of cars being unreliable when new are long gone (The spares vehicle, on the original emancipation run, from London to Brighton, used most of the stock itself but that is rather a long time ago).

Last year, at a classic car show, I overheard two numpties (Who clearly had no idea of what it was all about) saying how “Oh they weren’t very reliable in those days” and thinking it was probably a reflection on the fact that in “Those days”, they could not properly afford a car and didn’t know how to look after one in any case. When I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, my one set of grandparents had a car, as did my parents. None of the cars were prone to breakdown, apart from my father’s new Ford Escort in wet weather. That was due to poor quality electrics, which my father replaced with better quality parts. An uncle of mine used to have trouble with his car but that was because it wasn’t maintained very well and by the time it was getting towards ten years old, it was rough. Anything he owned for long was going to go downhill.

[bmcecosse]

The Minor of course is also prone to throttle return failure (only one return spring) - when my return spring broke I was in the outside lane doing ~ 70 passing a long line of trucks - with a tail of cars behind me. No problem - the speedo was soon well round into the fuel gauge, and I was past the trucks! I then pulled into the inside lane and then onto the shoulder and switched off at the same time dipping the clutch (or there would have been a massive backfire as fuel was drawn through the hot engine !). Just reformed the loop in the spring and reconnected it - and off we go again! The bracket the spring hooks into cuts in to the spring - and the spring into the bracket - but since the bracket is much thicker - it wins! Inspect your springs - unless you think MMOC should maybe organise a re-call??
I'm amazed by the proposed Toyota 'fix' - which seems to involved wedging a little bit of steel plate in - to increase the tension of the return spring! And - it's going to take 'only 30 minutes' to do this - aye right! Anytime I head into a garage - it's a good 30 minutes to just get 'bookedin'!
If Toyota were doing the honoulable thing here -they would have travelling mechanics come to folks houses (or place of work) and replace the part (not bodge it up) at the convenience of the owner!
However - it's a problem I won't have - since I don't have anything to do with anything from Japland - my Father having been a War prisoner of the Japs..........

[grumpygrandad]

Can we now expect the price of Morris Minors to go through the roof following the government's decision to extend the scrappage system to Toyota's. First it was the fly by wire throttle now it's the anti-lock brakes.
I just love modern technology - dont you
When my throttle cable snapped I used the conveniently placed hand throttle (choke) and connected it to the throttle and I appear to have all the anti-lock brakes I'm ever likely to need under my right foot

I was impressed, however, that the head bummer of Toyota appeared live on breakfast TV to explain the position despite the moron interviewer thinking he was the next Jeremy Paxman. Can you imagine that happening in the BMC/Leyland days - they'd have to have run a new channel exclusively to report the latest faults

hello your right i have used push bike brake cables try that on a modern car leyland you could never finnish writing about them but they werent alll bad plenty of collecters now,,gg

[MarkyB]

I heard the chap from Toyota being interviewed on radio 4 and they were trying to give him a hard time there too saying "have Toyota acted fast enough"
Given what is involved; identify the problem and what models are affected, design and manufacture a new part then train staff to fit it, then issue the recall.
I think they have done well to do all this in about 2 weeks.

According to my old boss who has a Prius the faulty part was made in America.

If it hadn't been for this problem we would never have heard about the new Prius brake thing. It's just that once the press have a story they are on the lookout for ways to expand it into a bigger story.

[chickenjohn]

I've only had one throttle spring go in 13 years of Minor ownership. I think if you consider the throttle return spring to be a service item and replace every few years (it is cheap!), the problem will be a rare one.

[bmcecosse]

Worth looking at it though - to see how thin it has become where it hooks through the bracket!

[Blaketon]

hello your right i have used push bike brake cables try that on a modern car leyland you could never finnish writing about them but they werent alll bad plenty of collecters now,,gg

My cars all have bike brake cables for the throttle cable, as they're better quality than you will buy "Off the shelf" (They have stainless steel inners and nylon lined outers). I use road style inner cable, as the pear shaped nipples fit the pedal nicely.

[bmcecosse]

When the cable breaks - it's fail-safe - the engine speed falls to idle. When the return spring breaks - it's full throttle all the way! Big mistake if that happens, to dip the clutch! The engine will rev to destruction. Switch off first!

[grumpygrandad]

hello sound advise..gg

[jonathon]

When the cable breaks - it's fail-safe - the engine speed falls to idle. When the return spring breaks - it's full throttle all the way! Big mistake if that happens, to dip the clutch! The engine will rev to destruction. Switch off first!

It won't BM as most moderns are fitted with rev limiters to stop overreving. Not good to drive on the limiter, unless you are on the track

[bmcecosse]

Not talking 'modern' here Jono - good old A series - limited only by the valves bouncing!

[grumpygrandad]

hello cant rember the last time i heard valve bounce but certanly was evident in my younger days..gg

[jonathon]

I'll get back in my box !!

[billlobban]

Mine has 2 return springs one fitted as normal and a second longer spring which attached to a hole drilled in the tie plate. Its not a very strong spring but suppose it might work if the real one snapps. (I didnt fit it by the way - bodger the previous owner probably responsible)

[Blaketon]

A customer, who has worked in the motor industry, called in today. He made the point that this Toyota thing has, in part, made the news because it is the first time Toyota have ever had to do it. He said that General Motors issue far more recall notices, so when they do it, it isn't newsworthy.

I still wouldn't want a fly by wire car!!! Another customer (Who has been a fitter for over thirty years) told me about someone with a "Discovery 2". It needed new brake linings and the callipers are controlled by the onboard computer. This means they will not release unless under the control of computer diagnostics. The owner did not wish to pay main dealer rates and got an "Expert" to try it. Said expert stuck a bar, of some sort, into the callipers to prize them apart. He broke two and the vehicle was thus marooned, on axle stands with no wheels. It was recovered to the dealer (£160) and then repaired, which entailed two new callipers (£1600). OK, I know the owner was to blame but what a silly system (I think the Renault Espace has something similar).

[PSL184]

The Discovery system is far from silly. The computer is required to control the brakes which it does on all 4 corners individually if required for use when off road and using the onboard computer to control traction and wheelspin. Its what makes it one of the most competant all terain vehicles you can buy

[Dean]

A customer, who has worked in the motor industry, called in today. He made the point that this Toyota thing has, in part, made the news because it is the first time Toyota have ever had to do it.

I beg to differ, I'm on my third new Toyota since 2000. My first Toyota was recalled due to a braking problem in 2002'ish. They were good cars, but the quality over the past ten years has dropped enough for me not to consider them next time. It seems they seriously can't handle being the largest car manufacturer.