JLH

[bmcecosse]

Iain - you can always send the questioner a PM telling them you make or can supply the part being asked for....... And they are then free to pass that information on to the rest of us!

[Mogwai]

fubar

[new_adventures_of_arthur]

Is this not all a bit silly?

Are the terms and conditions not a bit too over the top?

We're all adults here, we've all got the same things at best interest, why do we have to be moderated like children?

What about all moderators refraining from posts entirely and see how things go. I dont agree with strong language (kids on here) but generally, but why dont we see how things go. I honestly think that things will manage themselves. The members know what is wrong/right and will complain if someone is using strong language or acting inappropriately. I think this is when moderators should intervene.

I love the cars, but honestly - at the end of the day, it's only a bloody forum for Morris Minors. The company has not been in existence for years, and we're the only people that care about the car - and we're fighting amongst ourselves.

It just all seems a bit futile.

[badobsession]

Is this not all a bit silly?

Are the terms and conditions not a bit too over the top?

We're all adults here, we've all got the same things at best interest, why do we have to be moderated like children?

What about all moderators refraining from posts entirely and see how things go. I dont agree with strong language (kids on here) but generally, but why dont we see how things go. I honestly think that things will manage themselves. The members know what is wrong/right and will complain if someone is using strong language or acting inappropriately. I think this is when moderators should intervene.

I love the cars, but honestly - at the end of the day, it's only a bloody forum for Morris Minors. The company has not been in existence for years, and we're the only people that care about the car - and we're fighting amongst ourselves.

It just all seems a bit futile.

WELL SAID THAT MAN ........GET A LIFE MODS OR THERE WILL BE NO FORUM TO MODERATE .....

[LouiseM]

Is this not all a bit silly?

Yes, it's extremely silly.

Are the terms and conditions not a bit too over the top?

Regardless of your views on the T&C's, which are there to protect the Club and it's members and were in place long before most of us joined the messageboard, everyone who registers on this site agrees to abide by them. Obviously if you don't agree with them, or do not wish to abide by them, then you don't have to sign up to them.

We're all adults here, we've all got the same things at best interest, why do we have to be moderated like children?

The vast majority of members here behave like adults and manage to adhere to the T&C's that they signed up to. Most breaches of the T&C's are inadvertant and not repeated when brought to the attention of the poster. However a small number of members continue to break the same T&C's, presumably because they do not agree with them or perhaps they just want a bit of 'entertainment' to keep themselves amused. Whatever the reasons, at the end of the day it is made very clear within the T&C's that " You understand and accept that failure to assist and concord with these terms and conditions may result in your post being deleted and the matter raised with the MMOC committee. In extreme circumstances a ban may occur which may be temporary or permanent". So it's not as though members are unaware of the measures that may be taken, although banning someone is always a last resort.

What about all moderators refraining from posts entirely and see how things go.

Well we're all members of the Club and have the same right to post here as anyone else.

I dont agree with strong language (kids on here) but generally, but why dont we see how things go. I honestly think that things will manage themselves. The members know what is wrong/right and will complain if someone is using strong language or acting inappropriately. I think this is when moderators should intervene.

Moderators are not just here to deal with bad language. For example, we move posts which are in the wrong forum, delete 'spam' (some of which is offensive), delete duplicate posts, remove postings which could have legal implications for the Club such as contravening copyright laws and in addition deal with numerous pm's from members requesting assistance, advice or information. It's a thankless task at times, and we occasionally get subjected to abuse, but we do it to ensure that the messageboard runs smoothly for the benefit of all members. Most people don't appreciate the huge amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to ensure that members can enjoy this messageboard - things don't just "manage themselves".

[kennatt]

still no official explanation come on give us a clue so we can form our own opinion and then go to the other side of the force

[Innovator]

you all agreed the T & C's when you signed onto the board.
.

Got to admit that I just always "Agree" with the T&C and have never properly bothered to read them as they are too long, seem to be written by the club lawers full of legal talk and I hope that common sense will will suffise.

[bpr81a]

Apologies for the delay in issuing this statement.

I have had to remove this statement as it is alleged to breach the terms and conditions of the website

[Gareth]

The messageboard is in a very precarious position. Club HQ don't see it as an important part of the club; this is quite clear from the low profile that the website has been given in recent years and the even lower profile that the forum receives.

The club want to bring in younger members and the web is an ideal way of doing this. Sadly the club is run by (and consequently for) the older members who, by and large, don't use the internet or see the forum as the valuable resource which it undoubtedly is.

The T&Cs have to be strict to ensure the integrity of the club. They are not there to protect the members, frankly we're all big enough to look after ourselves, but defamation laws hold sway with organisations.

It is a shame that Jonathon would not adhere to the T&Cs, but then anything he said as a Trader could be construed as a form of advertising. Knowing his good work by repute (from his posts on here) I got in touch with him for advice regarding the engine rebuild on Phyllis. He was able to put me in touch with someone to do the job. If we let him do it, how is that different from any other trader coming along with advertising under the guise of "Just giving advice, guv'..." If I were an specialist engine re-builder (which I clearly am not...), and had spent a fair amount of revenue on advertising in the MMOC Magazine (which is the best for the model), I would be quite narked to find that a competitor was being allowed free advertising. Even if that advertising were allowed as a trade-off for free advice, it is still not paid for in monetary terms.

What I find more shameful is that certain members of the forum see this as a reason for a) leaving the forum or b) leaving the club altogether. They believe they are making a stand. They are not. A handful of people don't add up to a "hill of beans".

I believe, and have long believed (even while I was on the Moderating team) that the T&Cs are too severe and there is too much policing on here. The constant wrangles over "can we let x say y?" or "is that an advert?" or "would z take offence to w?" simply got in the way of the forum. I know that it does not run itself but that is the fault of the level of monitoring required to ensure the T&Cs are not breached.

Other forums don't have such draconian terms and conditions. Yes, I know we all agreed to them, but that doesn't mean they were right for the members. Which brings me back (in a rather disjointed fashion) to my original statement; the T&Cs protect the interests of the club. This is by far the best forum for the Morris Minor run by the best club for the model. Other forums do not come close to this. It is unfortunate that JLH has had to leave the site. We all know where to contact Jonathon if we need him. We all know where we can obtain his advice freely and without contravention of the T&Cs. It is equally unfortunate that some forum members (and some club members) have decided to leave either the site or the club in a fit of pique. But still, life goes on.

Phew. Sorry. Really needed to get all that off my chest. I shall dismount the soapbox, put my head back below the parapet. Carry on.

[chickenjohn]

Well said Gareth, I agree with you. It is a great shame that Jonothan has gone and I hope he can come back, but rules are rules, even if too strict and I for one will be staying on the forum and as a member of the MMOC.

[billlobban]

Expulsion details now on members section - a little scant but at least a response

[charlie_morris_minor]

Expulsion details now on members section - a little scant but at least a response

not any more or if it is i can not see it

[billlobban]

Apparently it has been removed.

[bmcecosse]

Other Forums I use have a system whereby 'offenders' are temporarily blocked for a week/month/3 months - and finally for extreme problems after the earlier warnings/blockings have been ignored - removed sine die. So - surely - is it not possible to give Jon a chance to come back and be a 'good boy' after a short spell in the sin bin ?? I do see Louise says the penalty can be temporary - so how about it folks - lets' give the lad another chance !

[billlobban]

I would agree with that if the hatchets can be buried then please do so. As can be seen by the huge number of posts and views the average forum user does not want to lose a valuable contributor.

[les]

Expulsion reasons removed. Is there any hope of a decent explanation of this sorry mess. People leaving the club etc may not help, but you can understand people getting to the stage where they've had enough. I'm reluctant to be too critical but I do think the moderation is somewhat fearful to relax a little.
ps. where's this 'other' site?

[sgray]

other site is http://www.morrisowners.co.uk

[mike.perry]

The experts on Morris Minors who can answer all the questions which arise are the the people who work on them every day for a living or sell the parts which keep them on the road. The rest of us are just amateurs. However T&Cs prevent these people from passing on their knowledge, should they so wish, to the rest of us. How much easier would it be if the person who actually rebuilds gearboxes or modifies Minors or supplies certain parts could answer questions raised on the website. Instead we have the tortuous route where someone answers the question by naming the expert and supplying the contact details

[billlobban]

Totally agree Mike. Which is why we urgently need a 'Trade' part of the site where professional companies can hawk their wares (for a price) and if they so wish, like JLH always have, offer advice.

[Pyoor_Kate]

The club want to bring in younger members and the web is an ideal way of doing this. Sadly the club is run by (and consequently for) the older members who, by and large, don't use the internet or see the forum as the valuable resource which it undoubtedly is.

And therein lies the problem. As long as the club ignores the internet, and by extension the forum; or at least casts it as it's ugly sibling; then the forum will struggle with the club's committee and the rules they set. This is a hugely valuable resource both for people who can't or don't wish to go to club meets (while the club meets I went to were pleasant, it's not something I felt the need to do every month) or can't go to club meets (now, work means I rarely could manage club meets anyway and the finances mean travelling to get to them are pretty much out), or indeed are stuck with a problem in-between meets and use the car regularly.

Not only that, but the forum is a way to attract younger members - without which the Minor will eventually die. Whilst I can definately no longer cast myself as a younger member (poot), the internet is a great place to recruit a following, and while I've agreed to the T&Cs (although I must admit I've never read them in detail* ;) ) I do think that the committee would be wise to review them and consider the possibility that they are overly strict.

The T&Cs have to be strict to ensure the integrity of the club. They are not there to protect the members, frankly we're all big enough to look after ourselves, but defamation laws hold sway with organisations.

As many have pointed out, I've been on other forums run by other clubs which are no where near as strict. This is a place of lively debate but there are valid concerns about the quality of parts, the quality of panels, the quality of workmanship and the club is not being seen to address these concerns. If the club is not seen to be addressing these concerns** and prevents us, on the forum, from discussing them except in a highly specific way*** then new member suffer and only learn through encountering the same problems, and there's no drive for suppliers to improve the quality of components/panels/workmanship.

Finding a balance is difficult, certainly. But I think that at the moment the forum's T&Cs are skewed rather too much in favour of protecting the companies and too little towards protecting the people who generate their income.

Oh, and saying 'no one offers to help' is perhaps fair comment, but people did with the traders group and it still got no-where. Some of us can't realistically offer to help either****.

* Like most T&C's on the internet... You can't agree to anything that's not legal - Although gamestation (I think) does have the right to quite a few people's souls from them agreeing on the first of april this year...
** Whether or not it actually is addressing them, if it's not seen to, that's the issue
*** Item X is faulty, I returned it, they (unnamed) replaced it with one which is just as bad etc...
**** I worked ~80 hours last week - anyone want to fit in a few volunteer hours around that? ;)