The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Discuss anything Morris Minor related.
warb21
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The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby warb21 » Fri May 02, 2014 2:31 pm

What is it that makes Minors sound like they do? Would an engine change e.g. to 1300cc, still sound the same? What about the Suzuki engine that was reported in a recent edition of the magazine?
Or is the sound mainly the because of the exhaust, the body shape, or something else?
I know the general answer is all of the above but I wondered where the 'whine' comes from, for example.
Answers on a postcard! And can we post audio files up here?!

Boomlander
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby Boomlander » Fri May 02, 2014 4:03 pm

The "Fart of Lucifer" is peculiar to the Minor exhaust and the gas flow through it on the over run.
A "Whine" is usually from the gearbox or back axle and depends on the age and condition of the relevant component! :D


John Naylor
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby John Naylor » Fri May 02, 2014 6:05 pm

Bertie does not fart as he should on the overrun! Why? He has standard 1098 engine, SU, and exhaust and I have checked timing and mixture ok but am most disappointed.

Bertie.

aupickup
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby aupickup » Fri May 02, 2014 6:12 pm

swap for your quiet one please
don't be dissapointed

nikki1979uk
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby nikki1979uk » Fri May 02, 2014 7:54 pm

When I take my foot off the accelerator he sounds like an angry puppy guarding his food.

:lol: love it.

les
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby les » Fri May 02, 2014 9:31 pm

I'm trying to eliminate the overrun noise, any tips? :D


ColinChandler
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby ColinChandler » Fri May 02, 2014 9:58 pm

Sorry to hijack the exhaust thread noise but for me, the most distinctive noise of a Minor is the clunk as the driver's door slams shut. Its lovely.
Cheers, Colin.

Chipper
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby Chipper » Sat May 03, 2014 3:58 pm

I think it's mostly down to the exhaust - after all, the Mini (and other BMC cars) used the same engine and manifolds, but didn't 'parp' on the overrun, or at least, not as loudly.

I have a 1275cc MG Midget engine in mine, with standard exhaust, and it has the same distinctive sound as it did when it was a standard 1098cc.
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

smithskids
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby smithskids » Sat May 03, 2014 5:40 pm

I have used a minispares RC40 system on both my minors for years. You have to cut and reweld them to fit but they last about 7 years. No banging and burping on the overrun!One of mine is a modified 1340cc with kent cam and rimflow valves, will cruise at 70 all day if you put enough petrol in it. :)

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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby Matt Tomkins » Sun May 04, 2014 9:40 am

I got talking to a chap in an oxford pub a little while back and it turned out that he had worked in the BMC exhaust development department (formerly unipart)
Apparently the 'distinctive noise' was part of the brief, and was due to the angle and arc of the hoop over the rear axle. the length of the exhaust pipe beyond this is also important so the wave length is (i think) half way therough a wave cycle by the time it reaches the end.


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les
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby les » Sun May 04, 2014 11:39 am

My van has got it bad and the lcv exhaust doesn't take the 'over the axle route'. Maybe this chap had a few too many! Bar talk is well known for some fantastic tales. :D


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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby Chipper » Sun May 04, 2014 11:48 am

I notice the Marina 1.3 exhaust has a similar 'hoop' over the rear axle, but also has an extra silencer on the rear section:

Image

Presumably, this stifles the fart somewhat...
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

twincamman
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby twincamman » Sun May 04, 2014 6:21 pm

^^^
Look how far back the silencer is. Most rwd live=axle equipped cars have an over-axle bend like the Minor. However not many have the silencer so close to the downpipe. For those who want to make the car fart-free, I would suggest moving the silencer back to just in front of the over-axle bend. Should make the car quieter as well.

warb21
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby warb21 » Mon May 05, 2014 10:11 pm

Well, since I posted with my questions the general route has been towards the exhaust, but thanks Chipper for your comment about the 1275 engine still sounding the same.
For me, I love the whiney sound which - to those audio experts out there - gets up to about 1khz when I'm at the top of 3rd gear just before changing up to 4th. Once I get to 4th, the whine disappears and the lower vibrations take over. But then, back down from 4th to 3rd, and the whine's back, gently dropping in pitch. And then the big slowdown in 2nd, the whine drops down from 1khz to nothing. I'll be very interested to see if anyone else here is with me on this...

MorrisMinor-65-1000
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby MorrisMinor-65-1000 » Tue May 06, 2014 11:15 am

warb21 wrote:Well, since I posted with my questions the general route has been towards the exhaust, but thanks Chipper for your comment about the 1275 engine still sounding the same.
For me, I love the whiney sound which - to those audio experts out there - gets up to about 1khz when I'm at the top of 3rd gear just before changing up to 4th. Once I get to 4th, the whine disappears and the lower vibrations take over. But then, back down from 4th to 3rd, and the whine's back, gently dropping in pitch. And then the big slowdown in 2nd, the whine drops down from 1khz to nothing. I'll be very interested to see if anyone else here is with me on this...
That's perfectly normal. It's because the gearbox has a direct top. In other words, there are only 3 gear clusters (1st, 2nd and 3rd) in the gearbox, and 4th is effected by locking the input shaft to the output. The layshaft is still turning, but since there is no load through the teeth and bearings (the gearbox effectively being in neutral) there is no teeth whine.
Direct top was a very common way of configuring gearboxes during that period, as it made them smaller, lighter and cheaper to produce. It also made alternative ratios much easier to effect, as 4th gear is simply a 1:1 ratio and therefore relies exclusively on the final drive ratio to determine the roadspeed at the wheels. As such, one gearbox design could be easily adapted to a multitude of different vehicles and engine sizes. Simply select the right final drive axle ratio to suit the vehicle's weight and engine's pulling power, and see where the rest of the gears fall. Individual gear sets could be swapped if necessary with minimal re-engineering work. Nowhere is that practice more evident than with the extensive range of RWD BMC vehicles.
Image
The downside of this practice however was that it contributed to an unwelcome and artificial delay in the full-scale development of 5-speed gearboxes in Britain. Most European countries were offering 5-speeds in the mid-1960s. It was 1976 before Leyland developed the LT77. The vast, vast majority of final drive axle ratios are somewhere between 3- and 4-to-1. Depending on the size of the road wheels, this gives somewhere in the region of 15-20 mph per 1000 rpm. A fifth gear ratio is often somewhere in the region of 20-25mph per 1000 rpm. In order to generate this ratio with a 4-speed gearbox, the differential crown wheel would have to be inordinately small which presents engineering difficulties, both in terms of robustness and fitting components into the smaller size. Therefore, 4th gear needs to stay as a direct 1-to-1 ratio, and there needs to be a separate gear set for fifth with an over-driven (<1-to-1) ratio. This involves using a cluster of 3 gear sets for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, bypassing the clusters and going direct for 4th, and then shifting back to a separate gear set for 5th. As such, most British manufactures elected to avoid entering the gearbox altogether and simply stuck an epicyclic over-driven gearbox unit onto the back. In some instances, this allowed for 6 forward gears if overdrive could be selected in 3rd.

Not entirely relevant to the discussion, but an interesting little insight I thought. :)

Michael
Cheers,
Michael

ImageImage
1967 - Minor 1000. Trafalgar 2-door. Barn-find rotter. Undergoing nut & bolt restoration.
1972 - Rover 2000 TC. Rescued from the brink. Now daily driver. Brigade Red. Subtle performance upgrades.

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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby Chipper » Tue May 06, 2014 12:15 pm

Aren't you forgetting the Austin Maxi of 1969, which had a 5-speed (albeit problematic) gearbox?
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

MorrisMinor-65-1000
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby MorrisMinor-65-1000 » Tue May 06, 2014 12:45 pm

Yes, although that was the only significant introduction with 5-speeds before the 70s. And that was a transmission in sump arrangement, which in itself was a dead-end diversity and not adaptable - at best a curiosity.
Widespread adoption of conventional end-on gearboxes didn't begin for many years. That Austin-Rover had to buy in 5-speed Golf 'boxes from VW for the Maestro, Montego and SD3 as late as 1984 says much of our lateness in adopting 5-speed as the norm. Indeed, Maestros and Montegos continued with these bought-in 'boxes until their demise in 1995, and the re-engineered 1990s Metros used PSA units. In fact, I'm struggling to think of a British 5-speed gearbox other than the LT77...
Ford - predictably - responded to market, albeit 10 years after the Continent, and only when product sharing with Ford Europe forced them to come up to the European standard.
Cheers,
Michael

ImageImage
1967 - Minor 1000. Trafalgar 2-door. Barn-find rotter. Undergoing nut & bolt restoration.
1972 - Rover 2000 TC. Rescued from the brink. Now daily driver. Brigade Red. Subtle performance upgrades.

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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby Chipper » Tue May 06, 2014 3:58 pm

The Elan Plus 2 130/5 had a Lotus gearbox made from Austin Maxi internals (presumably, in RWD configuration), while the Lotus Europa had a Renault 5-speed transaxle.

I suppose one reason for the slow introduction of 5-speed gearboxes in this country is that motorway usage and speed limits are relatively low compared to say, the US and Germany, etc., so there was no pressing need for them here.

It was only the introduction of them by the 'rep mobile' market cars in the mid-80's (Ford Sierra, Vauxhall Cavalier, Austin Montego, etc.) that really brought them into mainsteam usage.
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

warb21
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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby warb21 » Tue May 06, 2014 5:20 pm

Michael (MorrisMinor-65-1000) thanks for your gearbox animated diagram and explanation. Very helpful indeed :D

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Re: The Distinctive Sound of a Morris Minor

Postby Jojax » Sat May 17, 2014 6:11 pm

I've got a stainless steel exhaust....sound great. :wink:


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