Anti freeze

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catswhisker
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Anti freeze

Postby catswhisker » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:44 am

Replaced my 2 year blue A/F and took the old stuff to the local re-cycling centre,
shocked at the advice given by operatives which varied from - 'pour it into the waste oil tank'
to 'chuck it into the general waste skip' !! Not thinking either of these to be a good idea
I took it back home. -- any idea's for safe disposal ?

SteveClem
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby SteveClem » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:07 am

My local classic friendly garage takes mine,in return for a small contribution to the tea fund.

geoberni
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby geoberni » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:17 pm

Well here's the thing.
If you talk to your Local Authority, you will get a wide range of answers and generally a complete display of ignorance; therefore the real answer is difficult to obtain.
The problem being that they will be referencing documents relating to 100% strength product in huge quantities, not diluted product from a single car.

Technically, it would depend on the specific brand, but lets look at the Safety Data Sheet for one generic example, BLUECOL UNIVERSAL ANTIFREEZE

http://bluecol.co.uk/wp-content/uploads ... 417854.pdf

This data sheet is fairly recent, having been revised in August 2012.
Section 13 tells you that:
"Waste is classified as hazardous waste. Disposal to licensed waste disposal site in accordance with the local
Waste Disposal Authority."
However, Section 12 state:
Ecotoxicity
The product components are not classified as environmentally hazardous. However, this does not exclude the possibility that large or frequent spills can have a harmful or damaging effect on the environment.
Likewise, section 8 tells you that you should...
Wash contaminated clothing before reuse.
So it's OK to mix it with the washing machine 'waste' water....
:o :o

By now you might be getting the idea even the manufacturer is a bit confused by it all and that it isn't really that dangerous for the environment, if sufficiently diluted......

Which leads us to the Environment Agency "Protocol for the disposal of contaminated water and associated wastes at incidents",
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tmrwdvjdb2ms ... -.pdf?dl=0
which contains a statement at the bottom of page 10 which basically says that sufficient dilution is enough to enable most chemicals to be coped with by the Sewerage Plant. That is the official line for chemicals that are far more toxic than a gallon of car coolant/antifreeze!!


So, I would recommend that you ask your local sewerage company for their advice.

You might find that whilst commercial quantities have to be treated as hazardous waste, domestic quantities may be disposed of down the soil/sewerage system, BUT NOT the rainwater drains.
:)
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philthehill
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby philthehill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:51 pm

I would advise not to put antifreeze however diluted down a sewerage system that is connected to a septic tank as that will destroy the bacteria present in the tank and which breaks down the solids in the normal course of use.


geoberni
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby geoberni » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:32 pm

philthehill wrote:I would advise not to put antifreeze however diluted down a sewerage system that is connected to a septic tank as that will destroy the bacteria present in the tank and which breaks down the solids in the normal course of use.
Very true :)

The relative size of the tank is quite small compared to the size of a treatment works.
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catswhisker
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby catswhisker » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:22 am

Tried Southern water authority who say ' your local council will have arrangements
for disposing of chemicals'. Response from council - take it to the HWRS - that will be
the local tip that gave me bad advice in the first place ( geoberni was right !)
No septic tank here so probably could dilute and flush it but I think a visit to my
classic friendly garage as suggested by steveclem will be the way to go.Thanks all.

geoberni
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby geoberni » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:12 pm

My Local Authority state on their website that they do not accept any chemicals at their Recycling Centres, all chemicals must be taken to their Chemical Waste Contractor's site, having first obtained a Waste Transfer Permit.
Then you discover further down the page that
Accepted household chemicals include:

Acids
Garden chemicals (including creosote and weed killer)
General household chemicals
Mercury
Oven cleaner
Paraffin

Chemicals not accepted include:

Antifreeze
Petrol and diesel
So a bottle of Oven Cleaner, which you would be rinsing off down the sink after use, must be taken to this Contractor, but you can't take Antifreeze....

And to top it all off, it's a 100 mile round trip for me to visit this place, even if they did take antifreeze!!!
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ianmack
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby ianmack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:31 pm

At my local tip they keep a padlock on the oil tank and if you leave oil they ask you what it is. Apparently if their tank has only oil in it the contractors get paid for it but if contaminated they have to pay for disposal. One man there actually took the cap off and sniffed it!

SteveClem
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby SteveClem » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:15 pm

Substance abuse?

geoberni
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby geoberni » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:29 am

Hi Everyone
So, being a bit bloody minded over this, I pressed on with my investigations.

The County Council Customer Services fobbed me off with a pathetic response, telling me that they didn't accept it for recycling and that it was my responsibility to safely dispose of it.
I went back and gave them both barrels for sending me such a pointless reply and telling them I wanted a response from Environmental Services, not some Muppet with a list of stock emails.

Meanwhile I contacted Severn Trent Water, whose Customer Services referred me back to Local Authority Recycling, but did also direct me to their online chat. The Chat facility pointed me at 'Trade Waste'.

Cutting a long story short (this actually falls between the legal definition of Trade Waste and what the Water Companies consider non domestic waste) I've eventually managed to get a response from Trade Waste at Severn Trent, having called them yesterday to ask why I had received no response to my email after 2 weeks.
Firstly, may I just apologise in that it has taken slightly longer than I would have liked to respond to your enquiry. I just needed to ensure that what I am about to tell you is considered correct.

Regarding the disposal of very small quantities of waste coolant, containing antifreeze from a private motor vehicle at domestic premises , I would confirm that our current position is that, as a one off, very infrequent activity, we are prepared to accept the disposal of such wastes to a confirmed foul sewerage system. i.e. collecting the waste contents of a change of coolant into a suitably sized receptacle and then pouring this down a toilet or sink (which are usually connected to a foul drainage system) and either flushing or running a tap so that the coolant is further diluted with copious amounts of water is considered to be acceptable. This position may change in the future.

As for the Council, they too came back to me this week, just a phone call so no evidence to trace back to them. Environmental Services said officially their position was that I had to make my own arrangements for safe disposal, but unofficially what I did was up to me. :roll:

So, my advice to the DIY motorist changing their own coolant is to contact the Trade Waste division of their local Water/Sewerage Company. Without their written guidance, you're technically breaching environmental legislation and could be liable to prosecution and a fine (if they could ever trace it back ...... ).
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Monty-4
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby Monty-4 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:46 am

Prosecution aside, not poisoning the local environment is always the decent thing to do!
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palacebear
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby palacebear » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:19 am

Taking this off-topic slightly... Brings some council's recycling policies into question. Needed to get rid of a king-size mattress. Too big to carry safely on top of car to recycling centre so booked a special collection with the council and paid £10 in advance. Instructions were: Collection from 6am. Leave mattress outside house the night before. Did so. P***ed with rain overnight. Council refused to take mattress as it was 'waterlogged' ('see the t&c's Sir'). No refund. Borrowed a van (Vauxhall Vivaro). Took it too council recycling centre where commercial vehicles are permitted (only one of the three in the borough). Denied entry as van 'too big' for designated unloading bay. Not allowed to unload outside gates and carry the mattress in ('health and safety mate. More than my jobs worth'). Ended up paying a private waste contractor £60 to take it, and a rotted dismantled garden shed away.... And we wonder why fly-tipping is on the increase!! :evil:
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geoberni
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby geoberni » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:47 am

And we wonder why fly-tipping is on the increase!! :evil:
Lets not forget that (Unitary Authority, City Councils etc aside) for most of the UK the Recycling Centres are a County Council Responsibility while removing Fly Tipping is a District/Borough Council responsibility. So the Higher level authority gets to impose stupid rules that encourage people to fly tip, while shifting the expense to others. :evil: :evil:
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geoberni
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby geoberni » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:49 am

Monty-4 wrote:Prosecution aside, not poisoning the local environment is always the decent thing to do!
That's why it should go down the sewer to the treatment plant and not into the rain water run-off. :wink:
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Mark Wilson
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby Mark Wilson » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:45 am

geoberni wrote:
That's why it should go down the sewer to the treatment plant and not into the rain water run-off. :wink:
Yes in theory, but most of our older urban areas still have combined drainage systems which take both foul and surface water to the treatment plant. Although the solids and bacterial matter are dealt with at the treatment plant, I imagine much of the chemical pollution will continue onwards into the ecosystem.

geoberni
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby geoberni » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:09 pm

Mark Wilson wrote:
geoberni wrote:
That's why it should go down the sewer to the treatment plant and not into the rain water run-off. :wink:
Yes in theory, but most of our older urban areas still have combined drainage systems which take both foul and surface water to the treatment plant. Although the solids and bacterial matter are dealt with at the treatment plant, I imagine much of the chemical pollution will continue onwards into the ecosystem.
True enough for older (pre WWII) households in some cases, but at the Treatment Plant they should cope with the contamination during the treatment process. You might even argue that the additional surface water running with the foul will aid the dilution.
A lot of older houses where people think it goes into the sewer the rooftop rainwater is actually just going to soakaways in the ground nearby.
However, drainage of surface water from roadways is frequently sent straight to local rivers and streams, so the numpties that tip waste down the road drain are putting it straight into their local watercourse.
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Blaketon
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Re: Anti freeze

Postby Blaketon » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:41 pm

palacebear wrote:Taking this off-topic slightly... Brings some council's recycling policies into question. Needed to get rid of a king-size mattress. Too big to carry safely on top of car to recycling centre so booked a special collection with the council and paid £10 in advance. Instructions were: Collection from 6am. Leave mattress outside house the night before. Did so. P***ed with rain overnight. Council refused to take mattress as it was 'waterlogged' ('see the t&c's Sir'). No refund. Borrowed a van (Vauxhall Vivaro). Took it too council recycling centre where commercial vehicles are permitted (only one of the three in the borough). Denied entry as van 'too big' for designated unloading bay. Not allowed to unload outside gates and carry the mattress in ('health and safety mate. More than my jobs worth'). Ended up paying a private waste contractor £60 to take it, and a rotted dismantled garden shed away.... And we wonder why fly-tipping is on the increase!! :evil:
Blaenau Gwent seem to have a policy of promoting fly tipping. You are not allowed into the recycling centre unless you are in a car; the most environmentally friendly form of transport known, ie walking, is banned :o :roll: . The excuse given is health and safety (Easily addressed and contradicted by other council policies elsewhere) but the real reason is that the lazy articles, who work there, assume that anyone walking in must be a trader, with a van parked outside. Getting up to look or seeing whether someone is walking in and out several times (To empty said van), hasn't occurred to them, so they just ban pedestrians.

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Re: Anti freeze

Postby Dean » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:40 pm

juliemack169 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:58 am
Can you tell me what have you bought?
Since 1971 quite a lot. Do you want me to make a list?

On a serious note, I'm glad I stumbled on this as I probably would have let it run down a drain. :oops:
My Minor:
A Clarendon Grey 1953 4 Door Series II.
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