Fitting hazard lights kit

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MollyOwner
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Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by MollyOwner »

I’m confused!
I’ve read two different views here regarding a 4 or 6 lead hazard flasher kit. Some folks infer that using 4 leads and the existing flasher unit can causes problems, whilst others say that you must have a six lead with secondary separate faster flasher unit.
The 4 lead is cheaper of course and I hope very much never to have to use the hazard lights!
Has anyone fitted a 4 lead kit from eBay?
Stay safe guys.
Cheers.
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geoberni
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by geoberni »

Hi
I'm a little confused by your description of the '4 and 6 wire' types, because as I understand it, the 4 wire still has a separate flasher, it's just that it only has 2 outputs, one to each side, whereas the 6 wire will give 4 independent connections to each indicator.
I've never seen any after-market Hazard Flasher system that uses the existing flasher Unit......

You need a separate flasher unit because it is now dealing with twice the current, i.e. 4 lamps instead of 2.
I'm at a bit of a loss to understand how any (after-market) system using the existing Flasher Unit could cope with double the wattage. :-?
The designers of the factory fit would have specified the rating they needed for what they designed.

I have a 6 wire on Basil, simply because I had one in the shed dating back to the late 70's and never used.
It was convenient too as Basil has the DB10 Relay style of indicator arrangement.

Just edited to add that as regards your Question
Has anyone fitted a 4 lead kit from eBay?
The only 4 wire I can find there at the moment is this one, with a flasher included.....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hazard-Flash ... SwzcleuUfz
Last edited by geoberni on Fri May 22, 2020 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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panky
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by panky »

I fitted these to my Commer campers, so far no problem but only used them to test. I've heard that you can blow the unit if you leave the indicators on at the same time but I tried it with no undue effects, wouldn't make a habit of it though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAZARD-WARNI ... 2749.l2649

The only drawback is the modern looking switch but it can be discretely hidden
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jaekl
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by jaekl »

Do they have a feature to prevent the ignition being powered when the lights flasher? The power can back feed from the lights to the ignition. A diode in the ignition circuit would stop it.
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by panky »

Would that mean you could start the engine with flashers running and ignition off?
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jaekl
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by jaekl »

Yes, when the four way flasher sends power to the lights it also powers up the ignition by going through the fuse the other way. The engine will run, shut down, and then run again with each flash. If you move the turn signal circuit to the other fuse or a new fuse, it'll solve one problem but you'll need to remember to make sure the turn signals are off when you leave the car. A diode on the unfused side of the fuse would be another solution.
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by jaekl »

Also there can be a problem with the brake lights if your Minor uses the same lamp filament for the brake lights and the turn signals. You'll also have to move the brake circuit over to the non-ignition fuse. This would not apply to the home market or later Minors.
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geoberni
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by geoberni »

panky wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 12:15 pm I fitted these to my Commer campers, so far no problem but only used them to test. I've heard that you can blow the unit if you leave the indicators on at the same time but I tried it with no undue effects, wouldn't make a habit of it though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAZARD-WARNI ... 2749.l2649

The only drawback is the modern looking switch but it can be discretely hidden
Looking at the image, it's hard to tell, but I take it that's a '4 wire' ?

MollyOwner wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 4:58 pm
I just spotted this, might be worth bidding if a:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lucas-Origin ... SwyppewpF5
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simmitc
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by simmitc »

The older, better quality hazard kits had a multi-pole switch that disconnected the indicator feed when the hazards were on. This ensured that power could not flow back into the other circuits. Looking at the current offerings, I have not been able to find any detailed specification to confirm how they work. Presumably cheapness is no more important than function. :-?

Just spotted this. It seems to have the dedicated flasher unit and the multi-pole switch. https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/hazard- ... gJ6CvD_BwE The are downloadable fitting instructions.
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by jaekl »

My experience was with aftermarket units from the Sixties. Advances must have been made. I suspect the existing wire is cut rather than just tapped. The hazard switch is "inserted" into the wires to the indicators with normal operations simply passing through the switch. Once activated the normal circuit is opened and the power source is switched over to flashing power.
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geoberni
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by geoberni »

simmitc wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 3:45 pm The older, better quality hazard kits had a multi-pole switch that disconnected the indicator feed when the hazards were on. This ensured that power could not flow back into the other circuits. Looking at the current offerings, I have not been able to find any detailed specification to confirm how they work. Presumably cheapness is no more important than function. :-?

Just spotted this. It seems to have the dedicated flasher unit and the multi-pole switch. https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/hazard- ... gJ6CvD_BwE The are downloadable fitting instructions.
What you found looks very similar to this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAZARD-WARNI ... 4902.l9144
:wink:
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MollyOwner
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by MollyOwner »

Thanks all. I now realise I was confused re the number of leads. Have now ordered the suggested one from eBay and look forward to fitting the kit - but hopefully not having to use them!
Stay safe
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by Chappers »

I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t use one of those.
I bought one but the damn thing fell apart and was poorly made and quite useless, I couldn’t send it back as I had cut the cover slightly to fit.
Tried another modern type Switch but also no good.
I found the only reliable way was to fit a separate flasher unit for the hazards only.
I used this switch https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/ ... ategory/43
And the connector advertised on the same website and two of their solid state flasher units.
I found it best to keep the indicator flasher connections separate from the hazard flasher.
Trying to run the switch through one flasher unit caused all sorts of issues, using separate flasher relays solved this.
The switch really works great, and much sturdier than those horrible Lucas copies.
Hope this helps, I spent 3 or 4 weeks trying sort my car out. Now I have a reliable and robust flasher and hazard system.
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by dp »

simmitc wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 3:45 pm The older, better quality hazard kits had a multi-pole switch that disconnected the indicator feed when the hazards were on. This ensured that power could not flow back into the other circuits. Looking at the current offerings, I have not been able to find any detailed specification to confirm how they work. Presumably cheapness is no more important than function. :-?

Just spotted this. It seems to have the dedicated flasher unit and the multi-pole switch. https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/hazard- ... gJ6CvD_BwE The are downloadable fitting instructions.
Similar or the same here but considerably cheaper used one in my Minor and recently bought one for my current project:

https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/push-pull ... -kit-black
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mowogg
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by mowogg »

There is a dedicated smiths kit available from the usual suppliers -this is really easy to fit, with the cables all colour coded the same as the car. It has a period style light up switch too.

Not sure saving a few pennies here makes sense?
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geoberni
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by geoberni »

Reviving this topic, just to add a bit more info for cars using a DB10 Relay Indicator system, i.e. 'Flashing Brake Lights' system, that hasn't already been bodged to separate out the indicators.
When I fitted a switch to Basil, it was an old 1970s one that I had, which had 4 outputs and no inhibit function for the Indicator Switch.
I guess back then they didn't consider the likelihood of someone deciding to have the Hazards Operating while also Ignition ON with an Indicator Indicator selected.
It was before they became widely used as 'Park Anywhere' lights....

Ideally, as with the one I used, the switch needs 4 outputs that can connect to terminals 2,3, 6 and 7 for the 4 indicators. Because you want it to work with the Ign Off so the DB10 is not powered.

If you have just 2 outputs, and decide to just short the output of 2&3 and 6&7, you'll end up with the Brake Lights operating the Front Indicators... :roll:
.
.
DB10 Basic Hazard Switch.jpg
DB10 Basic Hazard Switch.jpg (83.64 KiB) Viewed 16533 times
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What you need is a Diode across each pair of Terminals (2&3 and 6&7), so the Supply from the Hazard Switch can get to the rear Indicators, but the Brake Lights can't come back the other way.
A basic 6A10 Diode should suffice, widely available and costing about £2.50 for a pack of anything between 1 to 10 depending who's selling them.. :roll: .
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6A10.JPG
6A10.JPG (55.57 KiB) Viewed 16533 times
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So this is how to do the job with a typical Lucas SFB300 style switch, including the inhibit for the regular Indicator supply. Colour Codes typically as shown.
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:tu1:
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DB10 Inhibiting Hazard Switch.jpg
DB10 Inhibiting Hazard Switch.jpg (95.21 KiB) Viewed 16533 times
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Owlsman
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by Owlsman »

Just a quick and sincere thank you to Berni for the excellent description and diagram.

Despite a couple of bumps along the way (entirely my fault, I must add) I have successfully installed a hazard flasher set up on my car, which has the
DB10 relay fitted. A slight minor (I know! :D ) complication on mine was that I needed an electronic relay for the 'hazards' to replace the bi-metal one that came as part of the HF switch, as I have fitted LED indicators, front and rear.

I hope I'm not tempting fate now by having hazard flashers, as I've never broken down by the side of the road...........yet!

As a bit of an aside to Berni's reference to 'Park Anywhere' lights, I remember a sketch by John Bishop, I think, on the subject of today's parking standards, when he had breaking news for motorists: that parking on a bend on double yellow and simply switching on the hazard flashers, ''Doesn't actually make your car invisible'' :D
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geoberni
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Re: Fitting hazard lights kit

Post by geoberni »

Glad you got it sorted. :tu1:
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