engine problems novice help!

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stainless
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engine problems novice help!

Post by stainless »

Hi all,
Hope you can help??
Just got my morris. Before i begin my bodywork restoration (new sills and floor to begin with)
I need to see if i can get the engine to run first. Im a complete novice!!

The car doesnt have a battery at present the seller said he charged it (the one in pic) and it started smoking and smell of rotten eggs so he didnt include it...

So first thing i guess get a battery 12v 43a/h im thinking??
Checked dipstick its got nice clear oil in.
So as you can see no fuel pump that i can see been told its supposed to be next to the battery on the right. Do i need to have one to start/test the engine?
Most of the electrics seem disconnected ripped out so i dont think its a case of just putting key in ignition and starting 😂
The fuel tank isnt connected to a fuel line/sender just full of bits of debris. (Going check for leaks) then clean tank up etc.

So is there a way to get this engine running with a battery with or without a fuel pump?

Many thanks a confused new neglected state morris owner.. Was going to sell her on but i want to try and get her on the road.
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Shropshiremoggie
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by Shropshiremoggie »

I’m sure some of the more learned members will respond - however ( from the photo ) I think there are many other issues to address before trying to start the engine . I wish you luck whatever you decide .
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geoberni
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by geoberni »

Wow
from just that photo, I agree with Shropshiremoggie that I'd be looking at more than a battery before trying that engine.
It really depends on how much you know about basic, older technology cars.
I totally understand the desire to know what the engine runs like, but I would start by seeing if it will even turn over on the handle first..... without any electrics.
Then connect up just the ignition circuit and the starter.

Do you know if it's still +ve earth, or has it been converted to -ve earth?
Basil the 1955 series II

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liammonty
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by liammonty »

It may be that the engine has never been run in that car, given the way pipes have been cut. It’s a replacement and looks to be a 1098cc in what appears to be an early (1952-1954) Series II Minor that would originally had an 803cc in it. A few more pics might help determine what is there and what isn’t.
stainless
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by stainless »

Thanks guys!

So turning by hand first then.Take the front off and radiator off and there should be a bolt head 17mm or 22mm or imperial equivalent? That turns anti clockwise?
Then get battery 12v 43ah and try connect starter motor and ignition and try? Dont know if its -ve +ve?
Heres another pic of left hand side i took last week car under cover at moment.

Thanks for the help.
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Shropshiremoggie
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by Shropshiremoggie »

To try and start it you will definitely need a fuel pump ( obviously connected to the tank and carb ). Looking at the state of the wiring I would be very worried about connecting a battery without making certain the wiring is in a ‘ safe ‘ condition . To me , it looks very worrying and you dont need a fire to add to your problems .
liammonty
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by liammonty »

stainless wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:17 pm Thanks guys!

So turning by hand first then.Take the front off and radiator off and there should be a bolt head 17mm or 22mm or imperial equivalent? That turns anti clockwise?
Then get battery 12v 43ah and try connect starter motor and ignition and try? Dont know if its -ve +ve?
Heres another pic of left hand side i took last week car under cover at moment.

Thanks for the help.
No need to remove anything on the front, assuming you’ve got a starting handle and the starter dog is still fitted to the front pulley. And turn it over clockwise :D
pgp001
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by pgp001 »

You can clearly see the heater drain warning plate is held in place by twisted wires.
This has been questioned on another thread.

You can get away without needing a fuel pump if you can rig up a temporary gravity feed supply to the carb. I agree, that wiring looks a bit iffy to me, be very careful what you do.

I strongly recommend you have a fire extinguisher handy if you are trying to start the engine.

Phil
myoldjalopy
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by myoldjalopy »

In addition to advice already given, remember philthehill's recent remarks on getting oil pressure up before trying to start up laid-up engines - "Take the plugs out and turn it over on the starter till at least the oil pressure warning light goes out plus 20 seconds. If your engine has the block oil pump priming plug - remove and prime the oil pump."

But even then you may be wasting time trying to start it as it looks pretty neglected. I'm dubious about it starting up without a good check-over/clean and service of the ignition and carburation systems. Plugs too. The connections at the coil may be corroded and any number of things may need attention before it will run. You can see the vacuum advance pipe is missing and the carb may be gummed up. Having said that, you can but try.....
Chipper
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by Chipper »

It would appear to be a positive earth car, assuming the original battery was photographed in the correct orientation.

You could try running the engine by removing the top of the carb float chamber (three bolts), ensuring it is clean in there and pouring in sufficient fuel to keep it running for a short while. Also ensure the dashpot is topped up with engine oil.

You may well have to check the points/spark plug gap, and ensure the engine has a decent earth strap in place.

The heater warning badge appears to be just held onto a heater hose with some twisted wire - it won't affect things, as long as it's not contacting any engine wiring.

Also, the offside front damper top screws appear to be missing, in case you hadn't noticed...
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stainless
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by stainless »

Thanks everyone👍👍

Getting a mobile mechanic to come and have a look
see if its worth starting a restoration, the fabrication and welding id do myself.
Fingers crossed.🤞🤞
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geoberni
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by geoberni »

Chipper wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:41 pm
The heater warning badge appears to be just held onto a heater hose with some twisted wire - it won't affect things, as long as it's not contacting any engine wiring.

At least we can presume the heater hoses are original fit, or at least a proper modification done by a tradesman, because they tie in exactly with the Workshop Manual. :lol:
Basil the 1955 series II

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Murrayminor
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by Murrayminor »

For an engine to run it needs certain things such as fuel, air and a spark.
Working through those items will give you an idea of what is there and what is missing.
Try to take things slow and steady and check one group at a time.
The below are some basic checks you can carry out to get a better picture of exactly what you are working with

Fuel


Check for fuel, is the tank plumbed in?

Is there a fuel line between the tank and the carb?

Has the old fuel pump been cut off or removed?

Do the fuel lines terminate at the carburettor?

Is the tank still attached to the car or is it full of rust?

Please ensure all fuel lines are sealed and secure before trying to start the car, any stray spark can cause a fire, be careful.

Electrics

Check all the connections are correct on the regulator.
Check any stray wires have a home, there should be wires going to the coil, starter motor solenoid, Negative leads and positive leads from the battery to the starter (depending on polarity)
Once you are happy all wires are connected to the correct places then turn your attention to the remainder of the set up.


If your vehicle has all the above in place and believed to be in working condition then the next thing to do is see if the engine is in a fit state to attempt to start.
Working from the front of the engine, remove each plug lead and number each one from 1 to 4 starting at the front
so you will have 1, 2, 3 ,4 in order from the front to back.
Now remove each spark plug and check the colour of the bit that enters the engine, it should be a light brown colour, but if you have tried to start the car by turning it over the plugs may be black and wet.
If the spark plugs are wet, clean them with a gentle clean with a wire brush. Also check how the electrode looks and how big the gap is between the electrode and the spark plug body

With all plugs removed and assuming the electrics and fuel have been checked and you are happy all fuel connections are tight and leak free and the wiring is correct and with the plug leads in a safe place away from the fan and the spark plugs out of the engine bay then attempt to start the engine.
But before you do, place a spark plug in lead number 1 and place the lead and spark plug beside the cylinder head where the plug should be screwed into the head just so you can check if the spark plug actually sparks when you try to turn the engine over, the plug will need to be in contact with the steel head, but don't hold it with your hands or you will get an electric shock, just lay it onto the head where the end of the spark plug can be seen

What you are trying to achieve is to get the oil flowing around the engine to give you oil pressure and a check for a spark at the plug before you attempt to start the engine properly, it may take a few turns of the engine to get the oil pumped around the engine but its easier on the engine to turn it with the spark plugs removed as it caused less stress on the engine.

Once the engine is spinning freely and you are happy all the fuel lines are secure and leak free and the electrics are all in place, then replace the spark plugs and leads making sure they are in the same order as you removed them.

Then attempt to start the engine, use the choke and turn the engine over for a couple of seconds on each burst so nothing in the system is over heated.

The engine will either start or not simple as that, if it starts, we can advise on how to check the timing to ensure it is running at its optimum.
If it doesn't start then there are a few more checks that can be done before trying again.

The above is a basic check list and doesn't cover the engine timing, which we will cover once the above has been checked

Good luck and let us know how you go on.


By the way, where in the country are you based? there may be someone local who could assist.

Regards

Dermot.
Proud owner of my first Morris Minor
simmitc
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by simmitc »

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but in addition to everything else, the air filter and vacuum advance pipe are missing. Is there an engine number plate on the right hand side of the engine? If yes, what are the first few characters? Also check the left hand side of the block for casting numbers or engine size. If that is a 1098cc then what else (if anything) has been done to the car to match the increased power? Have a look at the gearbox and bell housing. Is the case ribbed or smooth? What size are the fornt brake drums - same as rear, or larger?

Some photos of the interior and drive train would be interesting. Almost every car can be saved, and I'm sure that yours will be good in time, it's just that you've got an interesting collection of bits there, and we want to be able to give good guidance.
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by kennatt »

If I were you,I would forget about the engine for the moment,its an early car and they tend to suffer from rust problems round most of the underside.Because its early,they are now a bit in short supply and are becoming sort after,so restored they bring highish prices.
My advice,take the engine and gearbox out,get the car up into the air or onto a roll over cage and start on the chassis.
Fully examine .chassis sections ,floor,suspension mountings,take the cover sills off and examine the inner sill sections,inner wings and cross member.Make an assessment and cost up the work that needs doing and decide if you are willing and ABLE to do the repairs and welding if any.Mechanical parts are another matter,and probably the least of your problems they can be sorted relatively easily,by repair or second hand replacement.Sort out the frame first,fit the other bits after that. If you do it slowly with photos there are many on here who have the knowledge to keep you right,we've all been there down the same route. If you do ,it may take a lot of your time but you will end up with a really sound classic and the high satisfaction that you have done it yourself. GOOD LUCK
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geoberni
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Re: engine problems novice help!

Post by geoberni »

From your comment on the introduction topic 'New Member' viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72182&p=655246#p655246
I think your furlough might be finished before you get this on the road.... But we're all here to help. :)
Basil the 1955 series II

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