Panda Cars

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myoldjalopy
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Panda Cars

Post by myoldjalopy »

Hello peeps. Another idle question of mine, which I hope some ex-policeman or Morris Minor expert can answer - when were Morris Minor Panda cars introduced and when were they discontinued? I remember them well, although it seems extraordinary now to think they were used as police cars!
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geoberni
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by geoberni »

The 'Panda Car' came about in the mid 60s, due to significant overhaul of UK Policing. A good Wiki Article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Act_1964

It was the end of individual Town, Borough and County Forces as such. we had 158 police forces in Great Britain, 97 of them had an establishment of less than 350! Each of those had their own budget to spend.
Basically as far as cars were concerned, it was the change over from the 'Bobby on the Beat' to covering a larger area. The early 'Pandas' were without light or bell/horns. and each force could pick it's own. Minors, Minis, Imps, Vivas, Anglias, Escorts ever larger models such as Cortinas. Whatever the force could get a good deal on I imagine.

As to individual dates of service, I would imagine Minor 'Pandas' served between 65 and 73 ish, allowing for a couple of years service after the last one might have been delivered.
BUT, pre Panda, there were still cars brought by Forces, and I have seen articles citing the use of Minors and similar cars such as A30/A35 as police vehicles, for use by the Inspector, or CID.

There have been several topics over the years about the term Panda and whether there were any B&W ones originally. There is no evidence of such cars, even a recent post if you look closely, the cars are actually Dark Blue & White. The most likely reason for the 'tag' is that TV and Press would always have B&W images.
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ManyMinors
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by ManyMinors »

Different forces would have done different things and ordered different cars built to different specifications. I haven't personally ever seen a Minor "Panda car" earlier than "F" registration, which would be late 1967 at the earliest, and they were built until Minor saloon production ended in 1970. The Minor was probably quite a suitable car at the time. It didn't need to be fast as it was mainly for town use where a Minor is reasonably nippy and very easy to drive and manoeuvre. It is also fairly robust and had better ground clearance than the Mini or 1100 which would have been useful on some occasions.
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geoberni
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by geoberni »

This famous (in some circles of course) image of Stockport Police Minors in a stripy scheme can be identified to 61-63 by the sidelights arrangement. Although Stockport is now part of Greater Manchester, under the 64 Act, they actually because part of Cheshire in 67.
Seems likely that they may have continued with Minors up until the amalgamation at least?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gmpolice1/10057114714/
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burnham28
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by burnham28 »

I cannot be certain what the various county forces fitted their cars with but The Metropolitan police started using Morris minors in 1968 with F suffix registrations. I have the car that I drove brand new out of Surbiton police station in April 1968. The cars were used as ' unit beat cars' and were designed to patrol the streets. They were never fitted with flashing blue lights or sirens or radios we relied on our personal radios for communication although the supervisors or sergeants pandas were equipped with a force radio. They were the base two door model fitted with the low compression engine, no overriders, no pinstripes and were painted Bermuda blue with the doors Police White. If they could save a penny they did. The cars usually lasted for between 12 to 18 months by which time they had done well over 60,000 miles, they were then sold off.
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myoldjalopy
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by myoldjalopy »

Thanks for the info chaps. I remember them well sitting outside Penzance police station. I also recall a comic strip in 'Sparky' called 'L-cars' (obviously named after 'Z-cars') featuring two bumbling policeman - a fat one and a thin one. They should have driven a Minor but I don't think they did :(
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geoberni
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by geoberni »

ManyMinors wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:25 am Different forces would have done different things and ordered different cars built to different specifications. I haven't personally ever seen a Minor "Panda car" earlier than "F" registration, which would be late 1967 at the earliest, and they were built until Minor saloon production ended in 1970. The Minor was probably quite a suitable car at the time. It didn't need to be fast as it was mainly for town use where a Minor is reasonably nippy and very easy to drive and manoeuvre. It is also fairly robust and had better ground clearance than the Mini or 1100 which would have been useful on some occasions.
I've seen a photo of a car with the Reg 284 UXN, but as it's a 1958, the Blue/White scheme is almost certainly not original. :wink:

I tend to agree that F is probably the earliest genuine 'Panda' plate I've seen.

Why was this....?
Anyone who has watched 'Endeavour' on TV will have noticed the backstory of rivalries and one-upmanship between Oxford City/County Forces.
Imagine how disruptive it would have been with Thames Valley being formed from Berkshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire Constabularies, plus Oxford City and Reading Borough Police Forces!
I therefore strongly suspect that, since the vast majority of the Force amalgamations arising from the 1964 Act didn't happen until the period 1 April '67 to 1 April '68 (a handful were earlier, a few were later), it would be the latter part of '67 before anyone had budgets in place to go buying fleets of cars.

Some members here may have noticed this image coming up on searchers for Minors online. If you visit the website the caption is
"Ian kindly sent over this next photograph, which features a circa 1960 Morris Minor 1000 in service with the Northumberland Police force. TNL 55 was used, albeit for a brief period only, as a supervision divisional car apparently."
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This car is within a year or so of the Stockport Minors, so they must have been getting brought by Forces/Constabularies.
I think there is a vast history of unknown aspects of police car use in the post WWII period, that has vanished due to the amalgamations of the later 60s.
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Murrayminor
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by Murrayminor »

As a serving officer with GMP, I had a keen interest in the Stockport striped Morris Minors but could not find any other information on why they were painted as such.
I have a model which displays double sided "POLICE COURTESY PATROL" sign on the roof, but again no evidence of any such patrol from the archive.

My only thought was, as Stockport was not far from Ringway airport, now Manchester International Airport I wondered if they Minors were used at the Airport?
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simmitc
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by simmitc »

Some years ago, as part of my research on Pandas in particular and ex-police minors generally, I contacted EVERY current constabulary and asked them whether they, or their predecessors, had ever used Minors. This was a filtering exercise to locate which forces warranted further investigation. Our local force (Essex) were quick to respond that they had never used Minors. However, at a subsequent "Open Day" when we exhibited our Panda at their HQ, we were approached by an old sergeant... "I remember those, our first radio cars were a couple of Morris Minors, late 1950s, valve sets in the boot and a big aerial on the roof".

As regards the Met cars, I have some archive photos showing some with a white stripe over the roof above the doors and some without. When the Historic fleet was at Catford, the officer in charge told us that there used to be two garages, one North of the Thames and one South of the Thames. Each did their own thing, even to the extent that it depended on which mechanic was assigned a particular task; and the white on the roof was discontinued to save money.

The moral is that records do get lost, and unless you were there at the time, you won't know. The earliest mention that I have found for a true Minor Panda is 1967.
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geoberni
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by geoberni »

Murrayminor wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:30 am
My only thought was, as Stockport was not far from Ringway airport, now Manchester International Airport I wondered if they Minors were used at the Airport?
I've seen that suggestion before, perhaps even from yourself in these forums and it is a possibility, the only reasons I would err against it are:
The markings only appear to be on the bonnet, thus only 'High Vis' from the front. :-?
The only images are B&W and the model you have is also Black stipes I believe (if the one I've seen before), so not exactly what you'd expect.
In the early 60s, Flightline authorised vehicles would usually require bold contrasting markings, such as this 1961 BOAC crewbus.
BOAC.jpg
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All RAF vehicles for example, were painted Blue, but if an airfield vehicle, would have a Yellow Roof/Top.
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But as it was a period of great expansion and development, your suggestion could well be the answer. It was possibly a 'trial finish' for cars used at the airport. It just seems an odd choice for any sort of markings.....
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geoberni
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Re: Panda Cars

Post by geoberni »

As an aside to the Minor Panda story, this tale of Dunbartonshire Police use of Hillman Imps is from 1967, but of a couple of 'E' reg cars...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/-danophot ... 3097265314

There's an interesting footnote to the tale about the use of a special Berger paint... :wink:
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