Fancy something a bit different?

Discuss anything Morris Minor related.
Owlsman
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Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Owlsman » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:31 pm

I'm sure a lot of us have seen that black Moggy electric conversion video that is based in London but this one is in a different league.......and price bracket!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1967-Morris- ... SwXrVfZici

I recently considered whether to exchange my 'modern' for a new Hybrid Jazz. I had one to try for a day and I really liked it - though never had an automatic before - and I like the 'eco' benefits of a hybrid as well BUT I couldn't persuade my wife to have an automatic car and I think she's still convinced that even though it's a petrol/ self-charging battery, the car will just 'die' suddenly when the battery's flat :o

.........For that reason alone, I'd better steer clear of this lovely looking convertible. Oh, and the best part of £40k.

I do like the way that they've tried to retain the original look of the car, at least externally.

Monty-4
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Monty-4 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:58 pm

I'd never touch a "self-charging" hybrid, it's misleading marketing nonsense. Plug-in hybrids and especially full EVs are far better options. I suppose manufacturers are trying to ease the people over slowly though as it's quite a change after more than a century of the internal combustion engine!

I've been pretty curious about EVs and would love to convert a Minor, probably a Traveller, one day. And having test driven several EVs I wouldn't hesitate to get one... if I still had a commute! Recent events have removed that pain in the backside, at least.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

geoberni
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby geoberni » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:51 am

It'll be decades before there is sufficient infrastructure to appropriately support plug-in EVs.
Great swathes of the country live where they cannot park a vehicle outside their own house, be it Flats, Victorian Streets etc.
The government can talk all they want about plans for EVs to take over, but until the charging points are there, it isn't going to happen.
Basil the 1955 series II

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Monty-4
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Monty-4 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:28 pm

I may have to respectfully disagree, in part.

200+ miles of range is enough for several days if not a week or two for many, so having a charger at home isn't nearly as essential as when EVs had less than half of that range, like the original Leaf or Zoe. Many would be fine plugging it in at the supermarket once every week or so.

Of course those doing more distance would have to stop for 30 minutes every 200-300 miles (most EVs can fast charge to 80% or so in that time). I'm only in my thirties but think I'd need to stop more often than that to pee already!

Of course as EV adoption continues to scale we'll need more charging stations, but this is already happening. If we were to switch millions of cars at once, we'd have issues!
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

Myrtles Man
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Myrtles Man » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:47 pm

Monty-4 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:28 pm

200+ miles of range is enough for several days if not a week or two for many
Sounds good in theory but what about the situation in the depths of a long winter with constant use of heating, lights, wipers etc. being required?

ManyMinors
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby ManyMinors » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:24 pm

I wonder how the heater now works in the electric Minor??

geoberni
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby geoberni » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:43 pm

Monty-4 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:28 pm
I may have to respectfully disagree, in part.

200+ miles of range is enough for several days if not a week or two for many, so having a charger at home isn't nearly as essential as when EVs had less than half of that range, like the original Leaf or Zoe. Many would be fine plugging it in at the supermarket once every week or so.

Of course those doing more distance would have to stop for 30 minutes every 200-300 miles (most EVs can fast charge to 80% or so in that time). I'm only in my thirties but think I'd need to stop more often than that to pee already!

Of course as EV adoption continues to scale we'll need more charging stations, but this is already happening. If we were to switch millions of cars at once, we'd have issues!
So for example, living in Nottingham and going to visit someone in London who lives on a typical Victorian street without suitable charging points, you need a range of some 270 miles plus any contingency margin for diversions or whatever, lets say 10%, so that's basically 300 miles range required, unless you're going to stop off and twiddle your thumbs for 30 minutes or so, assuming you can find a charging point free when you need it at a public area.

We regularly visit the father-in-law which is about 3hrs and 140 miles each way. That's half a tank of fuel for the return trip, no messing about getting a charge from somewhere.

EVs are fine for Urban runabouts, but not all motoring.
Especially towing, which basically they can't do at the moment. Even those that can legally tow something, and the weight limits are quite paltry, the range drops to about 100 miles.

As to your problems with having a pee, if you're in your 30's I recommend seeing a Dr about your prostrate :lol: :wink:
Basil the 1955 series II

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pgp001
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby pgp001 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:02 pm

Most of the range figures quoted for electric cars will be a best case scenario and unlikely to happen in the real world I suspect.

I wonder if the quoted figures include running such things as headlights, heater, heated seats, window wipers, stereo system etc etc.
I bet the range drops substantially on a cold wet winters night driving into a headwind.

Glad I am just about old enough to not need to worry about it too much.

Phil P

Castanley
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Castanley » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:59 pm

I'd just like to offer the perspective of someone who has driven many EVs over the years, from a lowly Mitsubishi iMiev to a very capable Tesla Model S. I even owned an early model Nissan Leaf for 3 years.
I've heard a lot of arguments against EVs, some of them are completely unfounded and based on assumptions and heresay, others do actually have some merit.

Firstly the positive points. I've generally found EVs to be WAY nicer to drive than combustion cars. Returning to the latter feels so clunky and archaic by comparison (not including our lovely Moggies of course!). Electric cars just glide along effortlessly, producing amazing levels or torque from a standstill. There are many criticisms that come from long term 'combustion' drivers about the supposed difficulty of living with an EV, even though they have never experienced it. You actually need to change your mindset and treat the car more like you'd treat your mobile phone and top it up whenever a convenient opportunity arises. Many people would find that if they opened their minds and gave it a go, they'd wonder what all the fuss was about. It's just a car that fits into a lot of people's lives easily. When most electric cars only achieved sub-100 mile ranges, people said they wouldn't consider one until they can do 200 miles. When they reached 200 miles the same people demanded 300 miles. You can see where this is going! :lol:
Will the range drop in winter with your heater and lights on? Of course it will, it does for every vehicle regardless of what fuel it uses.

Now for balance, here's the negative...
Even though it fits into a lot of people's lives, that doesn't work for everyone. Most experienced EV drivers will agree that the charging infrastructure in the UK is still woefully unreliable, even after all these years. Needing a raft of different charge cards, assuming the machine is even working. This is probably the single biggest hurdle to EV adoption. What we need are charging stations which are as abundant as petrol stations. Get rid of all the various charge cards and just accept contactless debit cards or even just recognise the car which is plugged in and bill the owner directly!
Finally, the up front cost of buying an EV is still considerably higher than buying an equivalent petrol car, although the gap is slowly narrowing. The electric car is far cheaper to run but that's still a big difference in purchase price to make up.

I'd never presume to tell anyone what type of car they 'should' buy. If petrol works for you then that's all good. All I'd say is take any pro or anti press with a pinch of salt. Try one out for yourself if the opportunity arises and make up your own mind.

Happy motoring! :D

Chris.
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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Matt
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Matt » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:44 am

Personally - its not unusual for me to do 500 miles in a day - so that's where my range capability wants to be.

I work away from home, and there is no EV charging capability either at work, or at diggs (a small marina) although a petrol station nearby is being set up with Polar chargers.

Right now the infrastructure can't support what I need, but in 5-7 years I think that argument will no longer be the case. I think I heard recently that the government is/has passed some legislation saying that charge points must accept card payments soon - so hopefully having a wallet full of different charging cards will be a thing of the past soon too
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Monty-4
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Monty-4 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:45 am

geoberni wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:43 pm
As to your problems with having a pee, if you're in your 30's I recommend seeing a Dr about your prostrate :lol: :wink:
More to do with my coffee intake and obsession with proper hydration I hope! :lol:

I do wonder if those needing to do hundreds of miles every day are the exception, especially as many of us have suddenly adopted working from home due to *current events*.

I find that I barely need a car at all now, being within walking distance of the supermarket and not considering a holiday or car shows this year.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

Matt
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Matt » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:58 pm

Monty-4 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:45 am
I do wonder if those needing to do hundreds of miles every day are the exception,
I am definitely an exception, I haven't done anything out of the ordinary and from Sunday evening to this evening (i.e. about 48hrs I will have done 290 miles). By the time I have done my running around at the weekend, it will probably be another 800-1000 mile week (admittedly not all in the same vehicle, but quite a lot of it with a car transporter trailer behind me)
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kevin s
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby kevin s » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:25 pm

I have also driven several electric vehicles and they are great especially in town, the purchase cost cand argued to offset by fuel cost bu the real issue is ax said above charging infrastructure. Most charging stations are building 11kw
chargers, these will gove most cars around 150miles in 30 minutes, compare that to liquid fuel which gives you something like 450 miles in 5 minutes, on that basis we are going to need something like 18 times more chargers than petrol pumps perhaps 100 at every petrol station, that will also need a 1100kw power supply.

In some areas many people may be able to charge at home, but in urban areas with terrace houses and flats virtually no one will be able too.

At the moment I think PHEV is the best way to electrify motoring providing people actually plug it in whenever they can.

There is also another school of thought that all if this will be too late and we could more rapidly move to synthetic liquid fuels generated from waste and solar power.

What's really clear out of all of this is no one really has a solution, ideally the best option is to reduce our energy consumption altogther, travel less consume less and better insulate our buildings, covid has at least pointed out to many of us what we could do about the first.

Chief
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Chief » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:16 pm

There is also another school of thought that all if this will be too late and we could more rapidly move to synthetic liquid fuels generated from waste and solar power.
I'm hoping Bosch succeeds with their efuel (https://www.bosch.com/stories/synthetic-fuels/) and that it works for older cars :)

Can't find it anymore but a few years ago there was a company which had successfully made renewable zero emissions petrol (pretty sure it was plant based). Last time I looked online they seemed to no longer exist.

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KeithL
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby KeithL » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:57 am

kevin s wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:25 pm
What's really clear out of all of this is no one really has a solution, ideally the best option is to reduce our energy consumption altogther, travel less consume less and better insulate our buildings, covid has at least pointed out to many of us what we could do about the first.
I find it slightly ironic that during lockdown a large number of people worked from home successfully, commuting reduced (as did travelling generally) and so did air pollution. Many workers were pushing to continue to work from home when the pandemic was over, but then panic set in because it has been realised that city centres would die without all the commuters coming in every day and so everyone was encouraged to go back to working in the office rather than at home and air pollution was forgotten about.


kennatt
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby kennatt » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:50 am

pretty sure that I will have given up driving,if ,and its a big if they ever solve the problems with charging and range so No much interested in the pros and cons but read this https://www.industryweek.com/technology ... -footprint.

kennatt
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby kennatt » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:59 am

and if power supplied via wind farms from spinning magnets see here https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2015 ... e-on-earth

Sleeper
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby Sleeper » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:42 pm

.. and where was it Greta Thunberg decide to visit and tell the population how to live ?

John ;-)

kennatt
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby kennatt » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:07 pm

If she had stood in front of that lake ,and protested she would now be on a re education program ,for the next 50 years

MorrisJohn
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Re: Fancy something a bit different?

Postby MorrisJohn » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:03 pm

On the original post...it really saddens me to see historic vehicles have their engines ripped out and replaced with electric power plants. The sound, vibrations and smell from the a series unit is all part of the Minor’s special charm. An electric motor is a modification too far. At least I think so anyway.

I owned a full EV (Renault ZOE) for 18 months a few years ago. Used it for a daily 60 mile round trip commute on fast A roads.

It managed fine in the summer, but the cold weather really hit range. This was compounded by having to use the heater, wipers, lights etc more in the winter months. Winter range on fast roads was around 65 miles. I regularly returned home with single digit range left. I simply charged it every night while I slept.

The instant torque of the electric motor was brilliant in town and city driving. Especially for roundabouts. Even in a ZOE you could probably leave a Golf GTI behind up to about 30mph, if you want to.

EVs do drive very well and they’re good fun. If lacking a little ‘soul.’ It’s weird not having engine noise at first.

One key problem was broken public changing points (as well as a lack of). Also charging points were often blocked by selfish owners of conventional vehicles.

I eventually got fed up with the limitations. Perhaps made the switch too early.

I went back to a petrol car. Two litres, plenty of low down torque, and it usually returns over 50mpg on a combined cycle commute. Probably costs about the same to run as the EV, but much more practical.

It’s superb...but it’s still not as an enjoyable as bumbling along in the Moggy.
The Morris Minor, it’s one of the family.


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