petrol tank sealer

Discuss anything Morris Minor related.
stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:02 pm

Has anyone tried petrol tank sealant?
If so, how do you protect the filter in the tank from getting covered in sealant?

Thanks, John.

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 8153
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby philthehill » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:19 pm

Just been reading an article relating to petrol tanks, sealers and ethanol.
Make sure that whatever sealer you use it is not effected by ethanol.


stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:38 am

Thanks Phil.
Most of them claim to be ok with ethanol, additives etc; but I am not sure how you keep the filter protected from sealer when you are sloshing the sealer around.

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 8153
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby philthehill » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:12 am

I am of the opinion that you would not be able to splash the sealer around the tank without it getting onto the pickup filter.

It is about time that the Morris Minor fuel tank manufactures incorporated the ability to remove the pickup pipe and filter from the tank.

I have included below a link to the ESM large capacity tank which shows a picture of the tank with the lid removed. I suspect that the standard tank has a similar filter location and pickup arrangement.

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/fuel- ... ng-p830647

You can see how difficult it will be not to splash the filter.


taupe
Minor Legend
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:20 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby taupe » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:48 am

hi ...If your tank has holes from the inside then please replace it as it is risky having a leaking tank. Tank sealers are in my experience nearly as useless as tin pellets for your petrol tank.......the sealant almost always pools in great big lumps and as you have realised also are great at blocking outlets or internal filters....and then the ethanol turns it into a gooey mess despite ethanol proof claims. :evil:

If its just loose rust in there a treatment with Oxalic acid ... soaking/ swilling for a week is your best bet to remove all of the rust leaving it looking like new in there and this should not damage your filter...around £10 per kg on ebay...1/2 kg will give a good strong solution which you can keep for further de-rusting duties afterwards....

You can use Citric acid but oxalic is better..

If you must use sealant then why not first flush until it no longer smells of petrol then fill the tank 7/8 full with water, cut a small hole in the tank under the filter remove it then again refill the tank 7/8 full with water whilst you re weld a plate over. If you have cut neatly and folded up a tab..fold it back down and seam weld..you can always fit an inline filter in the fuel line.. it will then need to dry out thoroughly....

T

jaekl
Minor Fan
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby jaekl » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:34 pm

A couple years back on another forum someone took a tank apart and they discovered that the pick up tube is flared and slides in from the fuel line connection. Then someone else reported that the filter can be snagged through the filler hole and removed and re-installed. The details a a bit foggy so I might not be recalling correctly. I'll try to find the posts.

jaekl
Minor Fan
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby jaekl » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:00 pm

Seems my memory only was off by the age of the posting and that it was the same post. Although I do remember someone did cut a tank open and that probably was older. Between the filler and sender hole one can remove and re-install the filter, but the tube must be loosened .

https://www.morrisminorforum.com/forum/ ... #msg-38057

stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:52 pm

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I just want to buy a new tank for my pickup like the original one, but they do not exist.

Might try some of the suggestions, such as citric acid to clean; but my tank has pin holes which I have covered with plastic metal on the outside. If I can move the internal filter out of the way, I might try sealant.

Thanks, John.

taupe
Minor Legend
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:20 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby taupe » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:45 pm

maybe you could cut and adapt this one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/morris-minor ... SwlJlfakVb

And oxalic is much better than citric

T

stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:34 am

Thanks taupe, I did see that one, but it is the wrong shape for adapting.

I have adapted a saloon thank and have now fitted it, but would still like a new original tank. Unfortunately they do not exist.

Thanks, John.

kevin s
Minor Addict
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:20 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby kevin s » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:45 am

I had a problem with the filter being blocked and collapsed so ended up.doing this.
rps20190202_224925 (1).jpg
rps20190202_224925 (1).jpg (69.79 KiB) Viewed 405 times
The pick up is now in the sender unit and easily removed, the original was blocked with a ball bearing and a hole drilled for the hose to pass through in the boot floor, no problems since it was fitted.
Last edited by kevin s on Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Major Morris
Minor Friendly
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:31 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby Major Morris » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:24 am

I,ve had good results on other tanks with POR 15 , its a silver paint , not epoxy , it will seal pin holes , sticks well ,
Frost restoration stocks it

stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:38 pm

I like it Kevin.

And thanks Major.

stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:01 pm

I am going to try the POR 15 sealer.
It says you have to use POR metal prep before using the sealer.
Is POR metal prep simply oxalic acid, or is it more sophisticated than that? It does state that POR metal prep etch primes the metal to take the sealant; would oxalic acid do the same?

I am being a true morris minor owner and trying to save money.
Thanks, John.

pgp001
Minor Addict
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby pgp001 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:04 pm

If you decide to use POR15, then follow the instructions to the letter, if you don't it will not work properly.

I did my Honda XL250 tank with it and did not buy the recommended cleaning and preparation chemicals, it was a disaster and I still had a leaky tank.
The problem with POR 15 is that there is not much else that will stick to it, and that includes a second coat of POR15. :(

I ended up having to strip the whole lot back out with some nasty stuff that the technical guy at POR in the USA told me to use.
I then re applied the POR15 and used the correct materials and followed the instructions, and this time it worked a treat.

I would certainly use it again myself, but dont think you can do it on the cheap with the wrong cleaners etc.

Phil

stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:35 pm

Thanks Phil.
Great advice.

stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:57 am

A little update for anyone thinking of using tank sealer.

Because of the position of the filler neck on the LCV tanks, it was possible to bend back the tab holding the feed pipe in place. The feed pipe can then be manipulated out of the tank. I was able to pull the filter off the pipe by manipulating the flared end of the pipe, and getting the filter as close as possible to the sender unit hole to get hold of. But you could simply pull the feed pipe out of the tank and let the filter fall into the tank, and then remove it from the sender unit hole or filler neck.
I then put a blanking disk over the sender unit hole, and blocked off the feed pipe hole with a set screw. I filled the tank with oxalic acid and water, and sealed the filler neck with a bung. After a week of standing, I washed out the tank and put in the POR15 Metal Prep. After a morning of swilling and standing the tank, I washed out the tank and dried it thoroughly with a hot air paint stripper played through the filler neck, and sender unit hole.
Then the blanking disc was put back on the sender unit hole. The POR15 tank sealer itself is quite thin. I was worried that one pint of it was not enough to coat the inside of the whole tank, but it was just right, even covering the baffle plates.
My tank had pinholes in the very top of it, most likely caused by condensation ,so this was the area that I most wanted covering. I swilled the sealer around in the tank, and noticed the sealer seeping out of the pinholes. There were about 6 pinholes, all less than 1mm diameter. I think if you have a tank with bigger pinholes, the sealer would not work, too much of it would leak out before it dried.
The instructions on the sealer say to tip out excess sealer after you have coated the whole tank. This proved impossible with the minor tank because every hole that you could pour the excess sealer out of has an internal lip. The sender unit hole, the filler neck, the feed pipe hole and the drain plug hole all have internal lips, so it is impossible to pour out all of the product.
There seemed quite a lot left in the tank, so I left the tank resting upside down overnight, so that the area that I wanted to cover most had a thick layer on it. The next morning the sealer had all set solid.
It was fiddley but not too bad to re-fit the feed pipe and filter and bend over the holding tag on the baffle plate.

I have not tried the tank with petrol yet. This tank is now my spare, as I adapted a saloon tank by moving the filler neck.
The layer of sealer seems quite thin, but because the rust in the tank was at the top of the tank, I think it may have worked. I vigorously cleaned the outside of the tank with a wire disc on an angle grinder, and painted it with zinc pylon paint.
Heritage LCV tanks do not seem to exist, and replacement tanks are not available at the moment, so I think I did the next best thing.

But I would say that if your tank has more than just small pin holes, and the holes are anywhere but the top of the tank (ie always covered with petrol), wait until you can buy a new replacement tank. POR15 products are expensive, so only use if you are sure your tank is worth it.

I hope this was helpful.
John.
Last edited by stuffedpike20 on Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 8153
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby philthehill » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:15 am

To be perfectly honest and and bluntly to the point - if your petrol tank has pin holes it should be replaced.
Phil


ampwhu
Minor Addict
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:51 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby ampwhu » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:26 am

i did this a few years ago (maybe 7/8) and it lasted around 5 years before the fuel dissolved the tank liner. that then clogged up all the fuel lines, filters and pump. I had to replace most of that.

fortunately i work for an engineering company where i had a 304 stainless tank made. goodbye to rust for me.

stuffedpike20
Minor Fan
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: petrol tank sealer

Postby stuffedpike20 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:40 am

I agree Phil, but with what? There are no LCV tanks available.
I believe that POR upgraded their products quite recently to cope with ethanol etc, so it might be alright.

I found a tank on ebay the other day (and then lost it again without paying attention) for some other car, (a suzuki somethingorother) that looked like it could fit a Minor. It was less than £100 brand new, and delivered.
Surely there is a modern tank out there somewhere that could be utilised?


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests