Refurbish Vs Replace

[Andymoor94]

Hi all,

Owning a Minor and talking to like-minded enthusiasts has taught me that new isn't always better, which mixed with my minimalist lifestyle, has always pushed me to reuse, refurbish or at worst, recycle. I am not a fan of this throwaway attitude that's generally accepted.

I'm also a member of the Audi TT community and am currently restoring my very own (Whilst daily driving a Morris. Who'd have thought?). I've noticed a great deal of comments such as "just buy a new one", "why waste money on second hand?" and "that's beyond saving". These were comments made when I present a surface-rusted subframe and suspension. With a bit of elbow grease, I've nearly finished completely refurbishing the entire section, with the only replacement being bushings and a used set of springs which I had powder coated (which are different to my current springs. These ones are designed to lower the car).

This very same community seem to think the acceptable way to remove an exhaust downpipe is to cut it into 3 pieces whilst on the car. Yes, that's a generally agreed upon fact in the community! I've removed it in one piece with the subframe down, so I don't understand??

ANYWAY. It begs the question, what's your stance? How far would you go to refurbish a component? Or alternatively, what do you specifically always buy new? Do you have any triumphant tales of recycling or reuse?

[Chipper]

Good for you for trying to refurbish rather than replace. I recently had problems with my 2008 Abarth Grande Punto's central locking not opening with the remote. I replaced the driver's door actuator with a good used part from E-bay, since the original had a seized motor, but rather than throw away the original, I followed an online tutorial and partially cut the casing to remove the seized motor, took it apart, and cleaned/rebuilt it and now I have a good spare unit.

Alas, the open function still wouldn't work, so I also took the remote key apart and discovered a broken PCB track to the 'unlock' button (caused by a poor sliding battery tray design). A thin length of wire soldered in fixed that, and I now have fully working remote central locking again.

For my trusty 1970 Traveller, I have a stash of loads of spares (probably too many!) collected over the years, some being original bits from it which I've gradually rebuilt, such as the 1098cc engine, which may well go back in one day when I encounter problems with the 1275cc MG Midget engine currently fitted (which, you guessed it, I rebuilt and fitted back in 1994, my first ever engine rebuild and happily, still running well).

I work in a bodyshop, and wherever possible, we try to repair rather than replace panels, unless they're beyond economical repair.

[cococola]

I work in a garage and when I talk with the young lads about alternator rebuilds and replacing brushes they look at me very strangely.
Why bother when you can fit a new one is usually the answer.
I much prefer the old days where skills were far greater and the job was far more interesting to strip,find the fault and repair which is how I still operate at home.

[geoberni]

Ruddy site posting it several timers while it was down, then it posts all the attempts!

[geoberni]

Ruddy site posting it several timers while it was down, then it posts all the attempts!

[geoberni]

For the alleged desire amongst 'young people' to recycle and save the planet, many of them are completely oblivious to doing it sincerely.

They'll go on protests about plastic and fossil fuels for example, but ask them how many gadgets they have, how often they change their phone for the latest model and the examples you quote about actually fixing 'stuff' rather than replacing, and they have no idea.

I recently had to get a new washing machine, when the old one stopped working just before Christmas.
It was about 10 years old.
I knew what was wrong with it, the small PCB behind the front panel buttons and display had a fault.
The cost of a replacement PCB was about £110, all for a PCB around 2/3 the size of a beer mat with very little on it.
There was also no stock at any suppliers I contacted, with one saying they might get one special order in 28 days.

A new washing machine was around £300.
Needs must as the washing was piling up, and why spend 1/3 the cost of a new machine for a component that was only perhaps 1% of the original machine build cost.
The whole manufacturing system is still geared towards replacement rather than repair.
I know the EU has been pushing for manufacturers to design things more 'repairable'; but if they don't make spares available at reasonable cost, the design aspect is pretty irrelevant.

[Bigrob]

I believe a lot of this is a generational thing, obviously there are many exceptions and I don't intend to tar an 'age group' with the same brush.

I think it comes from this era of vast consumerism and cheap manufacturing.
As said above about the washing machine, why by a brush handle for £3 when you can get the whole broom for a fiver?

We recently had a new tumble dryer through the hotpoint re-call with the tumble-fire saga.

Recently one of the heating elements became detached. I phoned them up and explained the problem, and they offered be a new dryer in exchange for 50% of its value. I asked them about ordering a new heater element, to which they told they didn't offer a private customer parts service.

After 5 minutes of research I found a replacement on ebay for £18, and it took 5 minutes to install.


Yes it too probably came from China, but uses a lot less material and a lot less packaging, shipping fuel etc than the replacement dryer the manufacturer was pushing me to buy.

Through my life I spent a lot of time with my grandfather, and am fortunate enough to still do so.

He's of a generation of truly mend and make do. In the garage is an honest Trigger's Broom.

I've helped him work on Minors, Cambridge's, and a Morris Ten, for which parts are hard to come by. So it was always a case of clean up and repair.


Unfortunately, it seems to be a lot of my generation who shout about recycling and blaming the generation before. The generation who returned their glass milk bottles to be refilled, the generation that walked to the local shop for supplies, the generation that had hand me down clothes and repaired things when they were broken.

[MorrisJohn]

It’s nothing big but I recently “restored” (cleaned up) some old imperial tools, such as snail brand and the likes. They were just covered in surface rust and the previous owner had no use for them. They could easily have ended up in a bin...in fact I’m sure they would have.

An acid bath, the rust as gone and they’re good for many more years of use.

As others have said the main issue these days with modern products is manufacturers building failure into them while simultaneously ensuring it’s not cost effective to repair. It’s both for governments and consumers to push for endurable products.

Good on you Andy for repairing and reusing.

[les]

Ruddy site posting it several timers while it was down, then it posts all the attempts!

Same for me, poor show.

[Monty-4]

Strange to blame the younger generation for throwing things away when the older generations are responsible for bringing them up(!) and also creating, running and profiting from the businesses selling these products with planned obselescance, and have thoughtlessly burnt billions of barrels of oil prior.

Stones and glass houses.

Phones, tablets and many laptops are often glued and soldered together, deliberately designed to not be repairable. This is finally changing, slowly, with the likes of Apple historically being the worst offenders. Modern cars require proprietary tools, computers and unlock codes to repair. They're also far more complex and difficult to work on, too expensive to buy outright, thus leased, and trying DIY would likely break T&Cs and could be financially ruinous.

Repairing a Morris Minor in the late 20th century whilst surrounded by people and businesses with the knowledge and tools to support this is a radically different proposition to doing pretty much anything on a some modern turbocharged high pressure injection motor that you're liable for.

That said, there is quite a broad movement towards repairability, reinvigorated by the likes of ifixit.com.

[geoberni]

Strange to blame the younger generation for throwing things away when the older generations are responsible for bringing them up(!) and also creating, running and profiting from the businesses selling these products with planned obselescance, and have thoughtlessly burnt billions of barrels of oil prior.

Stones and glass houses.

Nothing particularly to do with the the upbringing from their parents; more to do with peer pressure and hard sell marketing. All teens rebel against their elders to a varying degree, combine that with insidious marketing to buy, buy, buy, as with the never ending purchase of Apple portable devices and they are their own worst enemy.
I don't think any of my offspring use iPhones, they all have their parent's detest of the replace frequently culture.

[myoldjalopy]

Refurbish/repair wherever possible.........

[Bigrob]

Strange to blame the younger generation for throwing things away when the older generations are responsible for bringing them up(!) and also creating, running and profiting from the businesses selling these products with planned obselescance, and have thoughtlessly burnt billions of barrels of oil prior.

Stones and glass houses.

Considering myself part of a (if not the current) younger generation, I can fully hold my hands up and claim to have been a part of it.

I remember when I was kid it was all about who had the newest this, and who had the newest that.

I did my apprenticeship as a mechanic, and even in the time since then things have changed so much. Repairing common place parts just isn't financially worth it anymore. Sourcing the relevant parts and garage labour involved in fitting said parts often is more expensive than the bolt on replacement.


What's important to me is what is done with the replaced parts / throw away plastics etc.

[Monty-4]

Absolutely Bigrob. As an early "millenial" I sure started out wanting the latest and greatest, but one becomes less impressionable with age, hopefully (readers of certain tabloids are obviously exceptions to the rule). ;)

[Bigrob]

Absolutely Bigrob. As an early "millenial" I sure started out wanting the latest and greatest, but one becomes less impressionable with age, hopefully (readers of certain tabloids are obviously exceptions to the rule). ;)

It dawned on me when I was about 17. I had my reliant robin, 2 jobs and a flat I rented.

My friends lived with their parents, some still do over 10 years later, and some had new cars their parents paid on finance.

In no way am i saying this is wrong, but in my experience, the more one has to work for what they have, the less likely they seem to 'throw and replace' what they've got.

[myoldjalopy]

".......and some had new cars their parents paid on finance."
My, how times have changed! I had to pay my parents for my first car - £100 - I bought it off them when they got a new one.

[Andymoor94]

Oh wow, I've come back to a right discussion haha!

I'm 27 and was raised very much by parents who spoiled my siblings and I, but I take pride in being the only one who paid for his own driving lessons and first car So I guess I'm very near the generation of millennials who have been consumed by the lavish, "newest trend" lifestyle, but I don't partake in it. The last time I bought the newest thing was an offer from O2 to keep me with them for the latest Samsung phone. My better half has my last one and we keep her old one away.

I've got a nice collection of my dad's old tools I'll be looking to restore, which would be nice to do with a friend so I can share the idea of new isn't necessarily better