Accident rate caused by Classics MOT exemption ?

[Edward1949]

After all the scare stories in the press a few years ago during the exemption debate, I was wondering if there are any statistics which suggest that badly maintained Classics are indeed causing more accidents than hitherto ? Can't find anything after a quick Google. I imagine it's very difficult to prove either way conclusively, what with Covid's influence. Apart from Covid, I reckon from observation on the roads that Classics are used less routinely anyway, partly because values are rising and there is more reluctance to risk deterioration of a valuable asset by regular use in all weathers.

[geoberni]

From my experience of researching Road Accident Data, since I'm currently chair of our Parish Council's Road Safety Committee, it is nigh on impossible to drill down to the specifics of vehicles involved.
Insurance companies may hold it, but this past 18 months has been so skewed with the lack of vehicle movements during lockdowns that there is little useful data out there.
My gut feeling is that there is, has been, negligable change. Sufficient research was conducted to know that in the great scheme of things it wouldn't affect anything negatively.

[kennatt]

I seem to remember that one of the reasons for introducing the exemption was that stats taken from M O T tests showed that there was a negligible failure rate on classics compared to moderns .Therefore there should be no change in the accident rate as a result.In my 34 years in the police starting in 1969, including several on traffic patrols,I can't remember any significant number of accidents caused directly by a mechanical fault ,there were a few ,mainly contributory factors, such as worn tyres . The main causes were driver error.

[MCYorks]

I've seen several stories in the press about accidents resulting from mechanical failure, but all related to modern or poorly modified vehicles. Any statistics on the cause of road accidents is unlikely to give specific figures for classics. I'm sure there must be mechanical failures with road vehicles almost every day that 'could' have resulted in an accident, but didn't and are therefore not recorded anywhere. I've personally seen several modern vehicles over the last few years where the front suspension has collapsed and/or a wheel has become detached All those vehicles should have had a valid MOT, but even then the MOT wouldn't necessarily have been able to prevent those failures.

I believe the majority of classics only cover a low annual mileage, mostly in good weather and at generally lower speeds than modern vehicles. Also, owners tend to look after them so they can enjoy the pleasure of driving them So, by definition, the chance of a mechanical failure causing an accident should be very low.

That said, not everyone is able to check all components on their car and in those cases an MOT or garage service is a good idea. Personally, for peace of mind, if I was buying a classic car that I intended to drive home, then I would insist on the seller supplying a valid MOT, even though it's exempt.

[will.broad]

The last time I took the Morris to the garage for the MOT the elderly mechanic said to me don't bring the car here when I'm not here as the younger mechanics don't know what a drum brake is, No I couldn't believe it either. I though a lot of modern cars still had drums on the rear. The old boy also said they don't have a clue about points, condensers or carburettors. The young ones come out of college not knowing about classics.
A friend of mine had a Ford pop with 6 volt positive earth he had an electrical problem so took it to his local garage and they tried to jump start it with 12 volt negative earth, he had even more electrical problems after that one.
I have an old 1913 motorcycle with no front brake and acetylene lamps again the MOT inspector scratched his head and said " I will have to fool the computer into thinking you have a front brake as it need both readings". It was lucky I had some calcium carbide for the canister for the gas lights to work, god knows how he fooled the computer with that.
I'm not surprised they done away with the MOT for classics as most garages don't understand classics now.

[jagnut66]

Hi,
There are still old school mechanics / testers out there but the youngest are probably in their fourties by now.
The younger ones only understand the modern plug & play cars, actual mechanical problem solving doesn't interest them, too much like hard work.
So as the older ones retire we are going to be left with no-one who understands our cars well enough to accurately MOT them anyway.
Unless we all rip out our engines and gearboxes and replace the with battery powered electric units.
In which case all that will be left to test is brakes, lights and a once over of the structural integrity, if they understand what that is, since our cars are not made of plastic..................
Best wishes,
Mike.

[MorrisJohn]

The thought of converting the Morris to electric makes me shiver. To paraphrase, “I’ll give up my petrol engine when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.”

[irmscher]

Electrickery the work of the devil

[ManyMinors]

Devil car?

[liammonty]

Hi,
There are still old school mechanics / testers out there but the youngest are probably in their fourties by now.
The younger ones only understand the modern plug & play cars, actual mechanical problem solving doesn't interest them, too much like hard work.
So as the older ones retire we are going to be left with no-one who understands our cars well enough to accurately MOT them anyway.
Unless we all rip out our engines and gearboxes and replace the with battery powered electric units.
In which case all that will be left to test is brakes, lights and a once over of the structural integrity, if they understand what that is, since our cars are not made of plastic..................
Best wishes,
Mike.

We’re all doomed. DOOMED I TELL YOU!!!

[jagnut66]

There are two problems with an electric conversion that I can see, apart from the range issues:
One: the companies that will convert a classic want a small fortune for doing it, over £2K I last heard.
Two: Batteries: From what I've seen they can't fit all they need in the engine bay and need to occupy the boot as well!
Sorry, unless things improve with regard to this and the price drops considerably, not for me either.....
Best wishes,
Mike.

[MorrisJohn]

Each to their own with regard electric conversions. I personally can’t imagine driving a Minor without the drone of the A-series engine and the trademark exhaust rasp. It would be like drinking alcohol free beer. It might look similar, but it doesn’t taste like the real thing.

Going back to the original question, I’m guessing the accident rates involving classics are negligible. Hence the low insurance premiums. As has already been said most accidents are caused by driver error, not mechanical or structural failure.

There is an argument the safer you make a vehicle the more risks the driver will take. Jeremy Clarkson used to say he’d fit a metal spike to car steering wheels that would impale the driver upon impact, and that by doing so people would drive so carefully there would be no accidents

[MCYorks]

Electrickery the work of the devil

Is that why Lucas is also know to some as the 'Prince of Darkness' ?

[MCYorks]

On the subject of accident rates and classics, one wonders what effect electric conversions could have? They may be safer in some respects but not in others. A couple of thoughts.

First thought is regarding the differences in operation and handling. You don't have the 'warning' of an engine running to know that the vehicle is ready to set off, but assumedly if the 'ignition' is on and the accelerator is pressed the vehicle will move. Most electric vehicles have very fast acceleration from a standing start. Great for nipping about in modern traffic, but terrifying if it occurred when you didn't want it to. If you're doing a job on the vehicle, which required the ignition to be on, then you would have to be very careful that the vehicle couldn't move.
You also have to be aware that because electric vehicles are very quiet, pedestrians are less likely to be aware of your presence. Rarely a problem with the standard petrol engine Minor

Second thought is maintenance. The advantage of the standard petrol powered Minor, is it's normally easy for most people to fix it themselves. There's a wealth of information and literature available, and many other helpful owners who often freely offer their assistance to help with problems. How many people would have the knowledge to fix a fault with an electric conversion? Add to the equation, that the companies carrying out these conversions will probably, all have their own bespoke parts and design. Would an owner be able to easily obtain the required skills, information and parts to repair it themselves? As such, there's nothing like a Haynes manual for a Minor electric conversion

Just my personal thoughts, but I'm sure there are other pros and cons people can think of.

How about a Minor Hybrid? The best of both worlds

[woodiesenfrance]

I drive a Minor (or two) every day and I do my best not to contribute to accident statistics.
Not that that has stopped a fully-loaded artic. backing into my trav. on the road (not even in a car park!), nor have my good intentions stopped a fancy low-lying bollard from leaping out at a front wing

[MorrisJohn]

Oh no! Talk about bad luck. I hope the damage was minimal in both situations?

I see you’re in France? The hairiest driving experience of my life was driving the motorway network around Paris. I’ve done it a few times now and it’s a miracle so many vehicles drive that stretch unscathed.

I drive a Minor (or two) every day and I do my best not to contribute to accident statistics.
Not that that has stopped a fully-loaded artic. backing into my trav. on the road (not even in a car park!), nor have my good intentions stopped a fancy low-lying bollard from leaping out at a front wing

[liammonty]

How about a Minor Hybrid? The best of both worlds

To me, a hybrid is the worst of both worlds, rather than the best. As far as I can see, hybrids create considerably more waste as well as generating more pollution overall, through additional weight, but their emissions are simply 'redistributed' to out of town. They also have 2 drivetrains to fail, rather than one. I suppose one advantage is that for the past 20 years, they have made their drivers feel self righteous, though, in the misguided belief that they are saving the planet!

[woodiesenfrance]

MorrisJohn, the lorry incident was scary but no personal injuries to me or the dog in the back, and the lorry driver admitted he was at fault and completed the accident form on the spot. However the insurance assessor was a pain in the rear, he wouldn't let us repair the car, it had to go to a garage and despite my OH supervising he couldn't be there all the time. Some of the woodwork replacement wasn't done very well - we had to replace the wheel arch a few years later.
The naughty bollard incident did NOT endear me to my OH, we needed a new wing!

[kennatt]

been round the Paris route a few times the first one of two being a nightmare,but a lorry driver put me wise as to how it works....... He said it was basically a Catherine wheel spiral,when you enter it you NEED to know how many exit there are until you are approaching the one you want to leave ie if on entering there are say three exits till the one you want,you need to move across into the third lane and as each exit peels off you end up in the one you need to slip off it without any need to change lanes.
However The locals play games with tourists, as you indicate left to move towards the inside of the spiral to get into the correct lane they will give way ,but if you indicate right to move towards the outer lane because you are in the wrong lane they block you to keep you in the wrong lane, If you are too timid to force your way you end up missing the slip road and having to go all the way round again. Or go through Paris suburbs Good old French

[woodiesenfrance]

Rats, we've been rumbled!!!!

A quick tip from a Froggie : get a decent set of airhorns under your bonnet, a quick blast of those from a Moggy works wonders!