series2 1955 rear door armrest

[jcrcleeman]

Hi all, my recently aquired minor is apparently missing the rear door arm rests. Çan anyone help me identify what should be there as i believe not all minors had them and some where different?
Ideally i'd like to buy some but i'm prepared to have a go and make some if I can get hold of one or photos to make a pattern.
All help gratefully received
Thanks John.

[geoberni]

The 4 Door doesn't have Arm Rests, only the 2 door, so your title 'rear door armrest' is a misnomer.
Are you are referring to a 4 Door model, or are you just asking about arm rests in the rear of a 2 Dr?


Edit - See my apology below

[martin418]

my 55 s2 4 door has factory rear arm rests i think they were part of the deluxe package interesting to get off they bolt from inside the door through the trim panel

[liammonty]

The 4 Door doesn't have Arm Rests, only the 2 door, so your title 'rear door armrest' is a misnomer.
Are you are referring to a 4 Door model, or are you just asking about arm rests in the rear of a 2 Dr?

I'm sorry, but that is not true. The title of the post is not a misnomer . 4-door Series II cars (and I believe Series MM) cars DID have arm rests on the rear doors, unlike the later 1000 models. I can vouch for this being the case certainly up to 1954, if not to the end of Series II production - my 1954 'early' Series II most definitely had them, and they were original. Whether this was only on deluxe cars or not I don't know, but I am sure someone else will do.

To the OP - I'd suggest phoning around some of the specialists listed in the club magazine or online, and you may find someone who has some? Remember there are more specialists out there than Charles Ware and ESM. A lot of people seem averse to phoning around these days, but it's surprising what is out there if you look beyond the usual suspects. Or could be worth trying club spares. If you don't find any and want to make some, I'm sure there will be a member somewhere willing to let you look at theirs!

[geoberni]

I stand corrected.
I've never seen armrests in a 4 door and I took a look in AKD 3542 before responding to confirm my thoughts. There is no illustration of armrests on any 4 door, including Deluxe, no mention of an arm rest except for 2Dr/Traveller/Tourer.
If there were a separate armrest (or arm rest), I would have expected it to be listed and illustrated.

I realise now my mistake is that the AKD 3542 only covers Minor 1000, not MM/SII.

Seems I need to find a copy of AKD743
Something else to scour the auto jumbles for...

door trim.JPG (87.39 KiB) Viewed 1833 times

[jcrcleeman]

Thanks for the replies so far.

OK what have I learnt....

My car (a 1955 series 2 4 door Deluxe model) left the factory with rear armrests.
They were mounted by means of bolts/setscrews from "inside" the door frame (presumably permanently fixed in some way to the door inner frame to aid assembly)
They were coverered in the same material and colour as the seats

BUT,
..... what were they made of?
.....shaped from solid wood with a "formed" padding wad attached?
......Were they handed?

The Original Morris Minor book has pictures but no mention of details etc.

So the hunt continues, even a worn or broken/scrapped one would probably be enough to model a new one on assuming I can't purchase one....(no luck so far by the way).

Any experience of their construction out there?

Cheers.

[myoldjalopy]

Hi John,
No they are not 'handed'. I think they may well be a block of wood, padded and then covered. There are two brackets to fix them to the door.
I will get you a photo or two later today of mine, if no-one else beats me to it....

[myoldjalopy]

OK, so SII 4-door de-luxe slaoon, January 1955:

2021-05-19 14.00.32.jpg (1.17 MiB) Viewed 1799 times

arm rest

2021-05-19 14.01.30.jpg (1.1 MiB) Viewed 1799 times

brackets from below

[jcrcleeman]

Brilliant Pete!
Thank you for taking the trouble it's very much appreciated.
I can now get myself organised and do a bit of woodwork and bracketry!

[myoldjalopy]

No worries John. Regards the couple of comments above about the brackets being bolted from inside the door frame, I confirm mine are simply screwed into the frame by self-tappers. I don't see how they could be bolted from inside the frame in any case, as the door trim panel would prevent this from being possible. It only takes a minute or two to remove the arm rest by unscrewing the six screws in the two brackets.

[jcrcleeman]

Yes I did wonder how they were fastened....and then I found this information in The Official Workshop Manual (AKD 743) which has left me thinking how they did the later (bolt) style ones?

Pete, could I be a real "pain in the b#m" and ask you to measure the marked up dimensions please as I'did prefer to make and fit your armrest style.......Slowly getting there!

Here's the information should anyone else need it from "The Morris Bible"!

[geoberni]

No worries John. Regards the couple of comments above about the brackets being bolted from inside the door frame, I confirm mine are simply screwed into the frame by self-tappers. I don't see how they could be bolted from inside the frame in any case, as the door trim panel would prevent this from being possible. It only takes a minute or two to remove the arm rest by unscrewing the six screws in the two brackets.

Here's a thought, a little 'out of the box' so to speak.
Were Door Pulls provided in addition to the arm rests?
If I understand the versions correctly, the Bracket version preceded the Bolted version?
Perhaps the Bolted ones were simply bolted onto the door cards with the intent they were just an arm rest subject to no real weight...
If people then naturally grabbed the armrest to pull the door shut, they wouldn't have stood up to that abuse so they did away with them completely.

[jcrcleeman]

It definitely states that the FRONT DOORS had pull straps and the REAR DOORS had the "combined" PULL & ARMREST.

So the question remains....was the later armrest secured to the door card (easy to fit but weak) or the door internal frame (hard to fit but strong)?

I've checked the workshop manual but there isn't an illustration of the inside of the rear door structure so can't identify any location holes.

It seems the only way to find out for sure would be to examine an original door's inner panel "in the flesh" so as to speak!

[martin418]

my s2 june 55 has the round type and are bolted through the trim and door frame to remove them you have to unclip the top of the trim fold it gently back and squeeze your arm down to un do them , i have tried to post pictures but no luck

[jcrcleeman]

Martin are yours solid shaped wooden lumps with glued fabric and a set screw fixed in them or something more exotic?

They look hard to replicate being curved in all directions.....3D printing anybody?

[geoberni]

my s2 june 55 has the round type and are bolted through the trim and door frame to remove them you have to unclip the top of the trim fold it gently back and squeeze your arm down to un do them , i have tried to post pictures but no luck

Wow, talk about a design failure....
You'll probably find your images are too big. The site often doesn't like photos over about 2Mb and most people's phones typically take at at lot larger than that. I know my phone, without changing any settings, can give me images of anything between 3 and 7Mb depending on the lighting, etc.
Sometimes the site is just fickle so it's easier to change the image size to 1-2Mb.

[myoldjalopy]

John, approx dimensions as follows:
A = 10"
B = 4"
C = 3"
D = 1.5"
Note that the line from C to where it meets D roughly follows the outer curve of the arm rest and that B on the underside of the arm rest is 3.5", giving a sloping angle from the upper part to the bottom part.
Also note that these measurements include the padding and trim, so the wooden block must be smaller. They are actually quite crudely made. The top and sides were stitched together, then folded over to hide the stitching, and then glued onto the bottom of the wood piece. Then there is a shaped piece of cardboard, or possibly thin plywood, on the underside covered in trim to hide the glued down flaps. Hopefully, you can see what I mean in this picture with one bracket removed:

2021-05-20 14.35.55.jpg (1.38 MiB) Viewed 1727 times

As for the brackets, here are the measurements, but note that, for each armrest, one of the two brackets is a mirror image of the other - i.e. in the drawing below, one bracket is bent at 180 degrees to the other along the dotted line:

2021-05-20 14.35.20.jpg (1.12 MiB) Viewed 1727 times

I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Pete

[myoldjalopy]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the holes in the brackets are countersunk to take the door fitting screws, but not for the dome-headed screws that fix the bracket to the underside of the armrest itself....

[martin418]

they have a metal core then foam padding and leather covers , effectively round and turning slightly oval where they meet the door

[jcrcleeman]

Thanks again for the excellent help folks.

Pete you require a star! As you say they look to be rather crudely made but actually that simplicity will help me to make halfway decent copies hopefully!

Chances are that a few cars in late spring were randomly fitted with them as they used up the remaining stock perhaps, either way I prefer the look of the earlier version.

Right, off to the bandsaw and sewing machine!