Hats off to the 803!!

[12jslater]

After hearing horror stories about the 803 minor I was expecting a dreary car however my newly purchased 1954 minor has its original 803 with an indicated 67k miles on the clock, she runs with 50lbs of oil pressure at hot ideal and 60lbs at 30mph in top gear, she has a 4.55 diff fitted, totally unmodified, easily keeps up with modern traffic, 30mph can be reached within just a few seconds, and will now sit very happily at 50-60mph with the different diff.

Hills aren't really an issue either, most inclines the car potters up perfectly happy without much change in speed and the steepest hills can be tackled happily in 3rd gear at a perfectly reasonable speed

I just think it goes to show that when an 803 is running well it's absolutely perfectly adequate in the minor!

[Monty-4]

I followed a 803 towing a trailer full of camping gear up a motorway to the national rally a few years ago, it was another Minor behind us that broke down.

[Bowie69]

I'm wondering whether your speedo might be out ;)

With a diff change of course it will affect this....

I have a 1098 on an 803 gearbox (don't ask, inherited) with 1098 back axle, the first two gears are used up very quickly indeed! ...and third is more like two and a half.

Still, great for pottering around and scaring the locals.

[jagnut66]

I just think it goes to show that when an 803 is running well it's absolutely perfectly adequate in the minor!

I'm glad you like your 803 engine, it is good that some people preserve (and persevere with) them.
I'm afraid both mine have been up-engined, one to a 948 by me and the other to a 1098 by a previous owner, in both cases along with full 1098 running gear/ gearboxes.
I love my splitscreens but the 803 engine is beyond my levels of patience..............
Best wishes,
Mike.

[liammonty]

It's good that you are enjoying your 803, but I'm guessing that you live in a flatter area than I do, as I can assure you your car wouldn't 'tackle the steepest hills in 3rd without an issue' here!!! It's horses for courses though - I would assert that actually in real-world driving, an 803-engined car can't keep up with modern traffic, not least because most modern cars have in excess of 4 times the power, but I'm sure it's fine in certain conditions. Just don't be lulled into a false sense of security by good oil pressure readings. My 1954 Series II's oil pressure was brilliant at the point it destroyed a big end on the M1, and it gave no warning whatsoever. I guess it could have happened to any car, but it just seems to happen a lot more to 803s.

Out of interest, have you driven any of the larger-engined versions of the Minor?

[12jslater]

It's good that you are enjoying your 803, but I'm guessing that you live in a flatter area than I do, as I can assure you your car wouldn't 'tackle the steepest hills in 3rd without an issue' here!!! It's horses for courses though - I would assert that actually in real-world driving, an 803-engined car can't keep up with modern traffic, not least because most modern cars have in excess of 4 times the power, but I'm sure it's fine in certain conditions. Just don't be lulled into a false sense of security by good oil pressure readings. My 1954 Series II's oil pressure was brilliant at the point it destroyed a big end on the M1, and it gave no warning whatsoever. I guess it could have happened to any car, but it just seems to happen a lot more to 803s.

Out of interest, have you driven any of the larger-engined versions of the Minor?

Yes I have a 1967 two door owned by a friend of my uncles, good car! And yes I do have plenty of hills near me, two of the hills are bloody steep in a modern car and while the 803 doesn't exactly glide up in 3rd gear it's far from struggling at 20-25mph on a 30mph road and on an mainroad road any hill can be tackled in 4th and speed maintained at a minimum of say 40mph, seems to be the most efficient at that rpm as it slows then levels off very comfortably.

Perhaps my 803 is just in strangely good health, original carburettor and stock compression ratios too. Had her up to 62mph when overtaking a van on the A41 the other day and she was absolutely motoring along, 50mph up slight inclines too without any noted slowing just a slight bit of extra throttle needed

[Castanley]

I also have a 1954 'splitty' with an 803 engine, which although isn't a daily driver I do use it quite regularly. Mine is well past it's first flush of youth, the engine is a little tired and has over 108k on the odo, low compression and a clattery top-end.
Yes, the gearing is ridiculously short. So much so that I rarely use first gear to pull away and I'm generally up to 4th by 20mph. Underpowered? Hell yes, but that's part of the charm for me! I still keep up with other traffic on all but motorways and fast A roads and I'd never consider up-engining it to anything bigger. I prefer to keep things as original as possible, but of course, each to their own.
Maybe one day I'll consider investing in a full engine rebuild and then I can really burn some rubber!

Chris

[myoldjalopy]

My first Minor was an 803cc with an engine in tip-top condition, as it had been restored by an enthusiast previously. I found the car perfectly good as a daily driver. It wasn't very fast, nor did it accelerate quickly but it pulled well and ran very smoothly. In comparison, my last 803cc engined car had what I would call a 'tired' engine and I eventually substituted a rebuilt 948cc engine and modified gearbox (to retain the long gearstick) which made it a good little cruiser. I suspect many 803cc engines now left in vehicles are pretty 'tired' these days, as not many would rebuild them now, instead preferring to replace them with a bigger engine. So, yes, the 803cc is a modest little engine but if in good condition not quite as bad as many of its detractors make out.

[Castanley]

I have to agree that most people would replace a tired 803 with a bigger engine but I fully intend to have mine stripped and rebuilt as soon as funds allow. And of course if anyone has any good recommendations for a company that would do this in the Merseyside area then I'd be very grateful!

[Nickol]

I do not have a 803 Morris ( my Minor ist a '69 Traveller) but I do have an equivalent Austin 8 withits 800cc side valve engine. Being in a remote hilly area of Germany it does struggle a bit with some inclines. Indeed my good lady had to get out once as it would not achieve the climb even in first gear to Amoeneburg and simply stopped. I was able to roll down to the bottom of the slope, then started the engine and in first gear running at full throttle made it up to the top.
Very occaisionally we travel on the Autobahnen and as long as it is reasonably level we can cruise at 70kmh but generally it is best to avoid them during the week when the HGV are in operation as they can be surprised.

[jagnut66]

Very nice Austin 8 Nickol.
Was it originally a woodie? I ask as the rear looks like converted Traveller parts?
Best wishes,
Mike.

[Nickol]

I am only guessing but I think it probably was. It was discovered in Pirbright, Surrey, England and restored, albeit not too original e,g with 12 V neg Earth system, elektric fuel pump.
It is smaller than a Morris TRaveller , so the Wooden parts are different.
Very rare though.

[pde2000]

The 803 has one fault; the lack of oil filtration. If you are careful and replace the oil regularly (or top up is there is a regular loss) and avoid the motorways then there is no reason to give up on it. Yes the bearings are a bit weak; the white metal backed shells are there to absorb the debris that the lack of filter provides, but are easily replaced, as long as done in a timely fashion. If your oil pressure drops, drop the sump and stick in a new set of shells. These are my experiences from having failed to keep an 803 in working condition.

[liammonty]

The 803 has one fault; the lack of oil filtration. If you are careful and replace the oil regularly (or top up is there is a regular loss) and avoid the motorways then there is no reason to give up on it. Yes the bearings are a bit weak; the white metal backed shells are there to absorb the debris that the lack of filter provides, but are easily replaced, as long as done in a timely fashion. If your oil pressure drops, drop the sump and stick in a new set of shells. These are my experiences from having failed to keep an 803 in working condition.

It’s the crank as well, I’m afraid. There’s a reason David Vizard described it as ‘a bent piece of wire’ in his book on tuning the A Series.

[jagnut66]

and avoid the motorways

Motorways and 'fast' A roads!
Sorry but if you want to use your early splitscreen Minor on a regular basis, to take you anywhere in the country you should wish to go, then the 803 engine is utterly useless!
As I said, I appreciate that some want to keep their cars completely original but if you want to use them, including on motorways, then the 803 needs to be replaced.
Not drastically, the 948 is a very capable engine, I have one in one of mine.
So you can keep the look and still use it.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[Myrtles Man]

As I have no personal experience in the matter but have been following the thread, I find myself wondering if an 803 is any less capable than, say, a Citroen 2CV which certainly seems to retain fans and credibility. Anyone had/has one of each?

[liammonty]

As I have no personal experience in the matter but have been following the thread, I find myself wondering if an 803 is any less capable than, say, a Citroen 2CV which certainly seems to retain fans and credibility. Anyone had/has one of each?

I had 2 Citroen Visas with the 652cc version of the 2CV engine, and the main difference over the 803 A-Series is that, while they are low on power, they can literally be driven flat out all the time, so you can make good progress. The 803 doesn’t usually respond so well to prolonged periods of flat out driving.

[ianmack]

I had a 602cc 2cv about thirty years ago. It wasn’t fast but it seemed reasonably lively and it kept up with the traffic. The 2cv isn’t powerful but it is very light, the body is made of tinfoil.

[Myrtles Man]

Sounds similar to my own experience in the early sixties when I had a Fiat 500 (wish I'd stuck it away in a barn when I could eventually afford to move on to a 'better' car as they're now fetching impressive amounts of money - it's such a pity that hindsight comes at quite the wrong time isn't it?).

At the time, my job entailed driving all over the country (quite literally - south coast venues one week, Wales the next, then Essex etc etc) and I used to have the throttle pedal flat on the floor as the default position, even going round main-road roundabouts, which was where I was able to pull back most of the ground that I'd lost to 'normal' cars of the period on the straight bits.

Once, when I was working in Liverpool, it became apparent that the poor Cinquecento was showing signs of succumbing to such uncompromising treatment so I took it to the local Fiat garage who did a full engine stripdown/rebuild at very little cost and when I collected it from them on the Friday to go back home they said that, even before they did the work on it, it was one of the quickest they'd had in there. Demonstrates the benefits of an 'Italian Tune-up' I suppose.

[manlyvaleaussie]

Did you change out the complete axle assembly or did you find a 4.55:1 cwp somewhere and change out the 5.375:1 and if so where did you find them, also did you need to replace any bearings and again if so where did you find those, really interested as I'm getting ready to overhaul my Series MM 4.55:1 differential and a source for parts is proving very difficult to find. Also, any help in the overhaul process would be greatly appreciated

Paul Follett manlyvaleaussie