1098cc with smooth gearbox

[MorrisJohn]

I’m going to view a car tomorrow that supposedly has a 1098cc engine mated to the original smooth porridge stirrer gearbox. The car is an early 1953 series II. Seems an odd combination of engine and box?

The bodywork and interior look fantastic, but I’ve yet to see underneath.

Question is should I be concerned about that gearbox and engine combination?

[liammonty]

I don’t think there is any particular concern - the 803 and 948 boxes are a bit weaker than the 1098 box, but the main issue with the 803 box is the rubbish gear ratios. It is possible to adapt the 1098 box to take the 803 gear lever but it requires some machining - there are write ups of the conversion on here and elsewhere. If the gearbox hasn’t been changed, though, it could be that the diff hasn’t either, and the 803 diff is horrendously low geared for a 1098 engine. A diff change to the 1098 ratio is straightforward though.

Did you not get the car from the friend you were hoping for?

[MorrisJohn]

Thanks for that information. So the standard 803 diff will mean going up through the gears more quickly and a lack of top end speed? So the 1098 in this situation will simply provide better acceleration?

Good to know it’s a straightforward job to do. Looks an expensive part to replace though.

I went to see my friends car. I really like it, but it needs a lot of work to bring it up to standard. I gave it careful consideration, I’d probably be £12k (including purchase price) barring the unforeseen to get it to a condition I’d be happy with. It doesn’t make a great deal of financial sense when for several thousand less I can buy a very good car that isn’t in need of work. That, and I really don’t want a project car.

[liammonty]

Thanks for that information. So the standard 803 diff will mean going up through the gears more quickly and a lack of top end speed? So the 1098 in this situation will simply provide better acceleration?

Good to know it’s a straightforward job to do. Looks an expensive part to replace though.

I went to see my friends car. I really like it, but it needs a lot of work to bring it up to standard. I gave it careful consideration, I’d probably be £12k (including purchase price) barring the unforeseen to get it to a condition I’d be happy with. It doesn’t make a great deal of financial sense when for several thousand less I can buy a very good car that isn’t in need of work. That, and I really don’t want a project car.

Shame to hear about the car, but yes, you should be able to get a really good saloon for a lot less than £12K, even though they aren't as cheap as they used to be!

Yes - the 803 diff on a 1098 will provide far better acceleration through the gears, but you'll top out at 55mph (or 60 if you lack mechanical sympathy or are very deaf), so it kind of defeats the object in my opinion. From memory, it gives about 13 mph per 1000 rpm, so 52 mph would equate to 4000 rpm. A 4.22 diff from a 1098 is cheap enough as they are common - I suspect you'd get a good used one for £100. It's the 3.9:1 and 3.7:1 from Riely and Wolseley 1500s and MG Midgets that are fantastically expensive now. The 4th gear ratio on all the gearboxes is 1:1, so changing the box won't alter 'cruising' revs but you'd get a more robust box that's stronger and has far better synchromesh (baulk ring) than the original if you change to a ribbed 1098 one.

Regarding the gearbox, again, they aren't too pricey. I've seen good 1098 boxes (second-hand) advertised recently for £200-£300. If the car is right, then it would be worth doing, but I guess if it isn't, then it may not be worth the hassle.

[MorrisJohn]

Thanks again.

I’ve now postponed the viewing of that particular car until I’ve been to see another. Depending on how it goes may or may not then view the ‘53 Series II.

[myoldjalopy]

A further point to consider is that an 803 box on a 1098 engine will have its life shortened as it was not designed for that sort of power. Then, if you want to swap in a 1098 box, you will have to undertake some engineering alterations if you wish to retain the 'pudding stick' lever, as 'liammonty' says. It is much easier to mate a 948 box with an 803 box and retain the original gear stick. Otherwise, if you just want to bung in a standard 1098 box, you will have to chop the floor, add a later transmission tunnel, get a new carpet to fit. Then there are issues with the handbrake lever fouling the gearstick - either fit a later one, or move the original one back somehow. Then there's the issue of swapping the diff..............
So, really, if you don't want a project car, I would avoid this 'hybrid' car and look for something more standard that doesn't need alterations of this type.

[MorrisJohn]

A further point to consider is that an 803 box on a 1098 engine will have its life shortened as it was not designed for that sort of power. Then, if you want to swap in a 1098 box, you will have to undertake some engineering alterations if you wish to retain the 'pudding stick' lever, as 'liammonty' says. It is much easier to mate a 948 box with an 803 box and retain the original gear stick. Otherwise, if you just want to bung in a standard 1098 box, you will have to chop the floor, add a later transmission tunnel, get a new carpet to fit. Then there are issues with the handbrake lever fouling the gearstick - either fit a later one, or move the original one back somehow. Then there's the issue of swapping the diff..............
So, really, if you don't want a project car, I would avoid this 'hybrid' car and look for something more standard that doesn't need alterations of this type.

Advice taken. A more standard spec car found (didn’t want a project). Posted in a new topic. Thank you for the advice.