Driving Technique

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Myrtles Man
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Driving Technique

Post by Myrtles Man »

A comment that simmitc made in the 'Clutch Squeal' thread about starting off in second gear piqued my interest. Is this, perhaps, considered normal procedure among fully-seasoned Morris Minor owners? I'm a Johnny-come-lately myself and continue to start from rest in first gear no matter what the terrain and notwithstanding the inbuilt recalcitrance of the non-synchro first gear. Maybe I should be using second for all but uphill starts. Any thoughts?
James k
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by James k »

I often start in second if it's possible. From a full standstill, I use first but if the car is moving the slightest bit, I try to get away with second. The Minor is pretty low-geared so it's usually fine.

Another useful trick that you probably know about already is to 'nudge' second gear before going into first. That way you definitely don't get any crunch if the gearbox is still spinning a bit. The downside is that it sometimes stops lined up so the gear won't engage.

The time that I find the lack of synchro annoying is if you have to change into first when moving. People usually say that you never need to but there are situations, such as turning up a steep hill at very low speed, when it's necessary. The upside is that if you manage to smoothly double declutch down to first when rolling, you feel like a master!

James
myoldjalopy
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by myoldjalopy »

I rarely use first gear, usually pulling away in second. I find it hardly worth going into first as I have to change up again so quickly.
Lurch
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by Lurch »

The old Land Rover is a bit like that too, you give a pause and 'blip" going into 2nd.. and nipping into 3rd momentarily takes you into 1st with no crunches !
Some folk pull away in 2nd all the time, tho tbh I never found it desirable myself, be ok if you had a diesel perhaps :)
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geoberni
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by geoberni »

I guess it depends on the combination of Engine, G/box and Diff, but yes, my minor happily pulls away in 2nd, which saves me changing 1st to 2nd within a couple of car lengths....
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woodiesenfrance
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by woodiesenfrance »

geoberni wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:54 pm I guess it depends on the combination of Engine, G/box and Diff, but yes, my minor happily pulls away in 2nd, which saves me changing 1st to 2nd within a couple of car lengths....
Agree, but with the caveat that it depends on your driving habits/skills and the situation you are in when you pull away. It also depends on whether you are towing or not, and on the load you are carrying in the car (and on the weight of the trailer) and on the attitude of your passenger if you have one, especially if said person is your spouse!
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by James k »

I'm not sure what diff mine has, it's a 1970 1098 Traveller, but all the gears aside from top feel low to me! I put it into second before I've even fully let the clutch out in first, then a couple of seconds in third and I go into top at just over 20mph. Then that's it up to 70! :lol:

Mine's been off the road for over a year and I've been driving a modern so I hope I can still remember how to drive it when I get it back!
nutsandbolts
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by nutsandbolts »

James k wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:34 pm I often start in second if it's possible. From a full standstill, I use first but if the car is moving the slightest bit, I try to get away with second. The Minor is pretty low-geared so it's usually fine.

Another useful trick that you probably know about already is to 'nudge' second gear before going into first. That way you definitely don't get any crunch if the gearbox is still spinning a bit. The downside is that it sometimes stops lined up so the gear won't engage.

The time that I find the lack of synchro annoying is if you have to change into first when moving. People usually say that you never need to but there are situations, such as turning up a steep hill at very low speed, when it's necessary. The upside is that if you manage to smoothly double declutch down to first when rolling, you feel like a master!

James
I use first gear from standstill if facing uphill or on the flat, 2nd if downhill. I remember when I passed my Bus test in a full crash box 1/2 cab double decker Leyland PD2, if on an uphill start (part of the test) you did not have time to double de clutch as you would be stopped or rolling backwards as about 3-4mph was the max in 1st. You had to use the 'snatch' change from 1st to 2nd which was when you were moving near max revs, a quick dip on the clutch and straight through neutral to 2nd in one move. If you did not get the revs right you would miss 2nd with a crunch, the bus would come to a halt and your fillings fell out! Very stressful during your test, I passed 1st time thankfully
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philthehill
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by philthehill »

Double de clutching is like having the ability to heel and toe. That is to be able to press the accelerator and brake at the same time.
One of the nice things about having a Ford gearbox fitted to my Minor is the ability to change down into 1st gear without crunching the gears though I still find myself involuntary double de clutching when doing so.
Having driven a vintage Scammel with a crash box and gate change - using a Minor box is a doddle. Came in handy when driving a Ferrari with gate change around Thruxton race circuit for my 50th birthday.

panky
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by panky »

After fitting a 3.7 final drive to my mildly tuned 1098 I found 1st is actually useable :D
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moggiethouable
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by moggiethouable »

I always let the clutch up from a standstill in first, but got used to pressing the clutch, slipping in to second without letting the clutch pedal up, then first and clutch pedal up. This always gets over the lack of synchromesh in first gear.
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liammonty
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by liammonty »

moggiethouable wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:51 pm I always let the clutch up from a standstill in first, but got used to pressing the clutch, slipping in to second without letting the clutch pedal up, then first and clutch pedal up. This always gets over the lack of synchromesh in first gear.
That doesn't work on those rare occasions you need to change into first on the move though, surely? Double declutching isn't that hard to master, and as Oliver said earlier, it's very rare to need to actually engage first on the move, unless at a junction on a hill for example, as second is low enough to pull from pretty much a standstill.

Doing what you describe certainly helps on my Minors engaging first when stationary, as the synchromesh on second stops the gearbox innards rotating so you can engage first quickly, without having to wait for everything to stop moving to avoid crunching the gear. It's also good for overcoming 'baulking'.
Bowie69
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by Bowie69 »

You people are spoilt -currently running an 803 gearbox behind a 1098 ;)

Never need to double-declutch on the way up from 1 to 2, only down into 2. 1 is only used when stationary, as any rolling speed means 2 is fine to pull away in.

When stationary, dip clutch, pause for half a second for the gearbox internals to stop spinning, and snick it into 1.

Starting from standstill in second doesn't bring me much benefit :)
moggiethouable
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by moggiethouable »

liammonty wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:47 am
moggiethouable wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:51 pm I always let the clutch up from a standstill in first, but got used to pressing the clutch, slipping in to second without letting the clutch pedal up, then first and clutch pedal up. This always gets over the lack of synchromesh in first gear.
That doesn't work on those rare occasions you need to change into first on the move though, surely? Double declutching isn't that hard to master, and as Oliver said earlier, it's very rare to need to actually engage first on the move, unless at a junction on a hill for example, as second is low enough to pull from pretty much a standstill.

Doing what you describe certainly helps on my Minors engaging first when stationary, as the synchromesh on second stops the gearbox innards rotating so you can engage first quickly, without having to wait for everything to stop moving to avoid crunching the gear. It's also good for overcoming 'baulking'.
Well, I never go in to first on the move.
The beauty of course with the Morris is everything happens that much more gently, with of course a driving style to match.
Well, it does with mine as it is completely standard without any up grades at all.
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liammonty
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Re: Driving Technique

Post by liammonty »

moggiethouable wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:53 am
Well, I never go in to first on the move.
The beauty of course with the Morris is everything happens that much more gently, with of course a driving style to match.
Well, it does with mine as it is completely standard without any up grades at all.
I must learn to drive more 'gently' then :lol:

Seriously, though, double-declutching is a necessity on my (also completely standard) Series MM around here in Dartmoor - the way from the A38 at Ashburton to my house involves 4 hills that reduce the car to first gear (2 of them are 25% gradients), and if I didn't double-declutch and engage first while still moving, the car wouldn't pull away and I would have to reverse back down to the bottom for another go. The car doesn't even have the mighty 27.5 bhp it did 70 years ago, I'm afraid! Having grown up driving tractors without any synchromesh, the Minor gearbox is pretty easy though :D
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