Lights and Fire, oh joy

[TheLaird]

hello there, I have a 1958 morris 1000 who needs assistance, I haven't posted before but i'd like to thank everyone on this site for the invaluable advice which you all provide, it's kept the Winchester running and healthy so thankyou very much

right onto my question, i'v got my first electrical problem and while i'm pretty confident with mechanical woes, electrics are a whole other kettle of pots so i thought i'd just check a couple of things,

it seems that the earth connected to the light switch behind the facia panel has melted itself to the red wire next to it, so as the wires have alot of give behind there i was wondering if it's ok to just cut the wires back to a non damaged part and re-attach them to switch?

also how do you get the light switch off of the panel, I have the pull variety, i'm assuming you have to unscrew it somehow but i'm not sure how to do it without breaking it.

thanks for your trouble

[Rob_Jennings]

hum,

There should be no 'earth' connection for the switch, all the switches are live feeds only, there are green wires behind the dash and these are live from the fuse box (dark green) or live from the regulator (light green). Only black should be used to indicate earth in a car and these should be connected to warning and ilumination lights only in there.

I think you better get hold of a wiring diagram before going further with a repair to make sure you have the right wires.

there is a thread here that has one that may help.

http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... ic&t=13006

If the wires have melted at any point you can see, there is a danger they may have melted in the loom too and should be considered very suspect. If they have melted back because the switch was running hot (because of poor connection perhaps) then you will be fine trimming back, replace/clean up the switch and reconnect everything.

sorry I'm not sure how to remove the pull type of switch but I'm sure someone will come along with some help soon

[TheLaird]

cheers for the reply, the wire that melted was a brown'un so not an earth then? i'l have to have a proper sit down later with the diagrams and a bemused expression

[Rob_Jennings]

brown is also a live feed, again not an earth, only black is earth in car wiring

theres a good site some where about lucas standard wires for cars ill try and find a link

[lowedb]

brown is also a live feed, again not an earth, only black is earth in car wiring

In Minors yes you are right, but you can't generalise about cars asa a whole. On some cars brown is earth, and black is ignition.

[Welung666]

Brown is permanent live in Vauxhall's just to add confusion

[57traveller]

Re the lights and wiper switch remova presumably the same as my early '62 saloon.
If you look or feel under the knob there should be a small hole. Push a small screwdriver into the hole which should release a spring loaded pin on the switch spindle, the knob then pulls off. It's a push and pull operation. It should be just a matter of unscrewing and removing the chrome plated securing ring which has two radial slots to facilitate this and pushing the switch forwards out of the hole. I made a tool to fit into the slots in ring out of a piece of flat steel. Dodgy using a screwdriver or similar as it might slip and scratch the paint or even penetrate skin and flesh!!

[Axolotl]

There is a post in "Useful tips" that talks about wiring colours, (search on this site for "wiring colours" should do it. Oh, I started it ) but in essence, all the colours you'll ever need for your Morris are here:-

http://www.peterrenn.clara.net/archive4.html

There is also an excellent, easy to read wiring diagram on this very site:

http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... ring+chart

[TheLaird]

I managed to get the switch off and thanks for the wiring colours it has helped alot


I'v had a look down the length of the wires and it seems that all the lighting ones have fused together, the brown/blue connection was loose when I took the light switch out so not sure if that didn't help, I'm going to replace them but i'm a bit confused as to where they go, do they all connect to the fuse box?

ooh and would anyone know anywhere where I can buy the correct wires for this electric lark?

thanks again

[Rob_Jennings]

If the wire is that poor and extends into the braided loom then you must renew those cables all the way back until they are sound (even if this is the whole length). You can't take the risk that they have melted in the loom and will short out later.

Check the lights at the front of the car as the main headlights are NOT fused items. I think you may find that the wire has at some point rubbed against the body work and shorted for a brief time to cause the melting you have.

You can repair this, but getting a complete second hand loom and some help might be the easiest way forward as thats a long section of wire to replace.

try the suppliers to see if they can sell you the cable you need, most sell complete looms too if you opt for that. or these guys should be able to supply what you need (never used them, but they seem to have everything you need)

http://www.autosparks.co.uk/

If you could post a pic, or get someone local to look at this, they might be able to advise on repair or new loom as best solution.

[TheLaird]

Check the lights at the front of the car as the main headlights are NOT fused items.

so are the wires which run from the pull switch, the wires which run along the top right hand side of the engine bay?

[Rob_Jennings]

At the bulkhead there is a bunch of wire around the fuse box and regulator, the brown (always live feed) will come from the regulator into the dash area.

From there the wires from the switch leave via the same route, and I think pass down along the front wing to the offside lights and indicators first then across under the radiator to the near side lights and indicators.

in daylight you should be able to trace it all out.

Problem areas are: where the wire passes through each front wing to reach the lights (suspect may have rubbed body there) and where it passes through the light bowl too.

the loom on a minor is pretty simple, most of the electrics are at the front, and very few go to the rear.

where are you in the country, perhaps someone can cast an eye and give a hand or advise the best repair.

How badly heated do the wires look and how far back is the real question?

the loom itself is braided in fabric tape, which can be unwrapped in sections and new braid rewrapped if you choose to just run new cables. But it depends how far you end up going as to how much effort that is worth compared to a new loom. If you are going to make connection in the loom then make sure you solder them properly and then cover the joint in heat shrink sleeve. I would not use crimp connectors in the centre of the loom they are just not reliable enough and add unwanted resistance

[TheLaird]

i'm in south woodford, london, I'v heard that there is a morris specialist garage about somewhere nearby but Iv not been able to track it down as of yet.

from what i can tell it looks as though a red wire and a brown/blue wire have become a bit melted together, this has happened about 5 inches or so from the light switch, i stripped off the tape around them and it looks as though they are ok up to the point where they go into the bulkhead, which is as far as i can tell so far, also the other wires around them seem ok but i shall have another look later and see whats whats. good times!

[TheLaird]

<img src="http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9780/thewoundko5.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" />

here's an image of the wound, the red square was probably unnecessary but i was in a photoshop haze. hopefully you can see where it burnt. forgive the shocking state of it under there i plan to tidy it all up

[Rob_Jennings]

that does not look too bad. I think cut back and solder new lengths in would be fine. Also check at the front for any worn section and renew (replacing grommets where it passes through body holes). Something must have overloaded the wiring at some point for it to melt in the first place

[Kevin]

I seem to remember one of our branch members had a similar problem a few years ago and it was caused by a faulty switch his wa s a 58 as well, he had wisps of smoke and a nice smell as well.

[TheLaird]

thanks for your help, i spent the weekend sorting the wires out and now he's running fine, and i have the added satisfaction of knowing that my lights will stay off when i turn them off