None starter

[Scaggs2016]

I have a 1962 minor, just had the gearbox repaired, new clutch, and new engine rear oil seal, this was all done at my son-in-law's garage ( by the way it's is own business ), he was come back with the car, he had drove it 15 miles and it just cut out.

It was fitted with a electronic ignition was found to be hot, I replaced it with a set of points, also a new coil, the engine turn's over , l have lights, horn, indicators. BUT HAVE NO IGNITION LIGHT OR OIL LIGHT ON THE SPEEDOMETER, have checked all the earth's.

We have no spark from coil to the distributor. we have petrol. anybody have any suggestions that may help, as you see l have done a far bit and now at a loss.

scaggs2012

[les]

If it was ok before going to the garage, I'd suspect they did something to cause the problem. Ask them what they disturbed during the work they did.

[olderisbetter]

My move woud be to check the fuses and that you have power feeding the coil using a meter, Did the engine come out to do this work? is the earth strap on the gear box on?

[IslipMinor]

Assuming that you have checked the basic battery connections and the earth strap between the gearbox and the body, the first test is do you have power to one side of the ignition coil with the ignition turned on? Do you have power to the fuel pump with the ignition turned on? Neither coil nor fuel pump are fused in the original wiring.

You have horn and lights, but they are not ignition switch fed. The indicators are fed from the ignition switch, via the fuse box. At least with the original wiring they are - do your indicators work without the ignition switch being turned on? If so I would look immediately at the ignition switch and the connections.

The ignition light circuit is fed directly, unfused, from the ignition switch, with a different wire that supplies the fuse box (A3-A4 fuse). The oil pressure light is fed from the fused side of the ignition switch supplied fuse box - the same as the indicators! Try earthing the oil pressure switch connector with the ignition turned on - does the oil pressure light now work? If so, the switch is faulty, but has no effect of making the engine run.

If the indicators only work with the ignition switch 'on' (standard), that is more confusing, as the same wire from the ignition switch feeds the fused supply to both the oil pressure light circuit and the indicators.

I am intrigued to know what you mean by a 'new engine rear oil seal'? The inline A-Series was never fitted with a rear oil seal - has an aftermarket kit been fitted as part of the work recently done?

[Scaggs2016]

Richard In answer to your question it was Crank Rear Oil Seal Conversion that was fitted, the indicators only work with the ignition switch on,
when trying to get a spark from the points with a screwdriver ( old tip ) there is no spark, also the fuel pump works with the ignition on.

I am getting a bit out of my depth now.

I have a new set of points / condenser / red rotor arm coming plus a set of leads. as I said before the electronic ignition was found to be hot, so we at first though it was that that was the result of the breakdown.

Frank

[beero]

I think you have more than one fault OR non standard wiring. Work on tracking down one fault at a time. Is there 12v at the coil? If not check the fuse box where all the white wires are linked. This may be a stupid question but are you and your son in law familiar with points? I take it they have been fitted correctly. Ignition light, check the lamp, the whites on the ignition switch and the yellows at the regulator. The oil lamp, again, check the lamp, the greens on the fuel gauge and check the switch as IslipMinor suggests.
Some more info may help. Is it still dynamo or alternator, exactly what does work and what doesn't work ie heater, fuel gauge, brake lights, wipers

[IslipMinor]

On the topic of electronic ignition - what has been fitted? Most are negative earth, presumably the car is now negative earth?

[oliver90owner]

It was fitted with a electronic ignition was found to be hot, I replaced it with a set of points

Questions:

Was there a spark before you changed the ignition system? Useful to know and the first check on breakdown, in my book.

Is there voltage at the coil and points (when open). There should be.

Is there current through the coil when the points are closed? There should be.

Is there current through the coil when the points are open? There should not be and would indicate a short circuit (ether the wiring a connection wrong or the condenser.

Testing for spark at the king lead removes distributor cap and rotor arm from the equation. A simple check before resorting to purchase of unnecessary parts.

[kennatt]

run a wire from the + battery to the coil, bypassing switch and fuses , and make sure the earth strap is connected properly see if it now starts.,It was running after the garage work so nothing they have done,but suspect that the removal refitting of the ignition system is the cause of your trouble,the overheating electronic system may indicate a poor or none existing earth,bearing in mind the engine/box would have been out to do the work,the ignition may have been finding earth through a cable or lead ,any sign of burnt wires .Without being critical its easy to fit the points incorrectly ,done it myself a few times and I've fitted hundreds over the years.

[Scaggs2016]

Thank you for all your comments I will go though them one by one,

She is fitted with an alternator this was on the car, I have had one Breakdown, this was the condenser, that when I fitted the electronic ignition, the car was running fine, it was on the way back from the workshop that things happened after the car had been driven 15 mile and was One and a half mile from home, it was toed home while checking the car over we found that the elec ignition was hot.

First the Ignition light had blown, replaced it, we turned the ignition on the lights all work as do the heater, fuel gauge, brake lights, wipers, horn and as do the indicators.

In an answer to your Questions Oliver: (1)Yes there a spark before the change (2 and 3) No to both (4) no to this also.

Kennatt I will try running a wire from the + battery to the coil, after the work was finished the car was running fine around the block a few time and then home.

We have checked the fuel pump and that is working all be but slow, put that down to the engine not running this is a new pump by the way.

With all your help we should get some were, THANKS.

[oliver90owner]

Thanks for the feedback.

Clearly there would be an answer of 'no' to (4) if the answer was negative for (2) and/or (3)..


Your problem appears to be coil or supply to the coil.

Kennat is on the money for finding the fault.

I am bemused as to why you would fit contact points if there was a (good) spark from the electronic system. I don't know how hot your electronic module would run, but it is small and was likely switching a heavy current. So what was the spark like after it broke down? Looks likely either no supply or a dead short just after the coil primary.

[Scaggs2016]

I will try Kennat off running a wire from the + battery to the coil,

There was a spark from the electronic system but none after. that's why the points where installed but still no spark.

I will get back to you all when I've gone though all your suggestion.

[IslipMinor]

The assembly of the points is very important - the correct order of the wires, insulators and spacers is essential to getting them to work. If there is a connection between the wire from the coil and 'ground', that effectively bypasses the points and the engine will never run.

In the picture below the connection to the coil has to go under the white plastic bush, to make contact with the points spring. It must NOT be connected directly to the nut on the top of the white plastic bush - that is connected directly to 'ground'.

Lucas Points v2.jpg (29.68 KiB) Viewed 3013 times

Can you post a picture of your points connections?

[olderisbetter]

I will put my hands up to once putting the wire on the wrong side of the inslutator, As i had changed the points, condenser, plugs leads ,dizzy cap, rotor arm and put on a new battery we mad much head scratching and tea drinking for a while.

[Scaggs2016]

hi Richard, l have all way put the wires on top of the plastic bush, yesterday when l striped it all out of the distributor to start again l found the low tension lead had broken. witch l have joined and have a good feed until l can get a new one, so when l reinstall all the new parts today l well keep my fingers,

[IslipMinor]

so when l reinstall all the new parts today

With the wires underneath the white plastic bush in the picture, I trust??

They must connect with the points spring and no wires are to touch the nut on the top of the bush.

Can you post a picture of what you do?

[kennatt]

[/quote]l have all way put the wires on top of the plastic bush[/quote] never start that way they must go under the plastic bush which is what I suspected in previous post,easy to do done it myself.looks like you have the answer to your non start.good luck

[oliver90owner]

Agreed, kennat, but that would indicate there was current through the coil, which the OP said there was not, earlier. Seems to be some basic misinformation, if the only fault is that of mis-assembly. I asked that question specifically to ascertain where the fault was likely to be found!

[Scaggs2016]

l all well l got the old girl started, she was running a bit lumpy at first, but after checking the points, l had a none starter again the low tension wire had broken again ,but after replacing it with a new one we are firing on all cylinders. one problem the oil warning light is staying on even with the wire off the switch. apart from that Lady M is running fine at the moment.

[IslipMinor]

Good to hear it is now running OK.

For the oil warning light, in your first post it was not working at all, and now on all the time? Presumably only with the ignition turned on? Is the light steady when the engine is running?

A bit off the wall, but if you disconnect the ignition feed wire to the coil, does the oil warning light still come on? If it goes out, if could be that you have connected the wire from the oil warning light to the coil! If it goes out, try connecting the wire that is disconnected from the oil pressure switch to the coil - does the engine run and does the oil warning light stay off?

If it still stays on that is a different problem to sort out.