Ignition warning light

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Nickol
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Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sat May 06, 2017 5:21 pm

The ignition warning light on my 69 Traveller does not come on at all. Motor runs well and no obvious signs of any electical fault or loose wiring.

Befere I take the Speedo out to check whether the bulb has blown or not, has anyone experienced this and it was not due to a faulty bulb?
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firedrake1942
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby firedrake1942 » Sat May 06, 2017 5:37 pm

Could be the bulb, could equally be that the whole holder has fallen out of the back of the speedo, particularly if it is one of the new plastic ones, which are rubbish. This often happens if you have been doing other work in the area.

Are you still running on a dynamo? If so when the lights are on and you rev the engine do the headlights brighten. If s this indicates dynamo is doing its job and ancillary bits and pieces are fine.

Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sat May 06, 2017 10:08 pm

No, the Dynamo has been replaced with an Alternator but I would imagine that the same principal applies with headlights on? Perhaps though , if the battery is Sound and fully charged, then dimming may not be easily recognisable....for the first 15 minutes or so anyway.

Actually I do have at last obtained a km/hr speedo of the right calibration but I do not want to Exchange it yet because it is a fiddly job, until after the TüV test has been done in case the examiner asks for a certification.
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SteveClem
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby SteveClem » Sat May 13, 2017 6:47 pm

Well done getting the right speedo. I think they're quite rare.

Declan_Burns
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Declan_Burns » Sun May 14, 2017 10:42 am

Nikol,
Surely a 1969 car would have a black face speedo with both MPH an KPH. Exchanging it is not difficult at all. Just unscrew the screws left and right of the speedo through the holes in the glovebox maximum three turns and gently pull the speedo foreward.
The TÜV will not check your speedo calibration.
Regards
Declan


Regards
Declan

Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sun May 14, 2017 1:00 pm

It does of course have a black face and records km/hr on the inner circle and as you say, the TüV is not interested in calibration.

The Exchange of a unit to a km/hr Version (and mph on the inner circle) has nothing directly to do with the Tüv - just a personnal Preference. The only reason I am waiting is that it was tested last October and had some recorded faults - (most of which an MOT tester would not even comment on) and is now in for the re-test. I do not want to awaken sleeping Dogs by having a much different odometer reading to last time.

Hopefully if all is ok this week, I can then remove the speedo as you say - I have done it before to replace a broken cable and it is perfectly possible that as suggested, the ignition bulb holder has dropped out due to my clumsyness.
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Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Tue May 23, 2017 3:54 pm

Update

How nice it would have been that the bulb holder had just come loose!

To cut a short Story shorter, I unplugged the Standard feed wire from the ignition light to the alternator and earthed the end Connection. With ignition switched on, the light did too. Thus I am now trying to find out about alternator checking to see what Needs to be done. Perhaps the alternator has not been charging since the light went out, so to speak?

But as ever , suggestions and tips very welcome.
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Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Fri May 26, 2017 8:07 am

i have discovered another thread in the Forum where similar a Problem was encountered but which apparantly solved itself. so I burnt some midnight oil checking the Internet.....and

when the ignition warning light Fails to light up when correctly connected to the alternator but when earthed does work, then the fault probably lies either in the rectifier or Diode pack (Regulator) . It is also possible for the brushes to be sticking. As mine is a new unit ( albeit 3 years old but hardly used) any other damages to the filed coils etx can be ruled out.

Replacement parts are about €15 and they can be tested using simply Equipment. I do not like the idea of just purchasing a complete new unit, just because they are relatively cheap.
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oliver90owner
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby oliver90owner » Fri May 26, 2017 11:16 am

The indicator lamp simply supplies current to the alternator rotor to ensure excitation at start up. If there is sufficient residual magnetism in the rotor it may well self-excite. The most likely fault is a sticking brush or a cheap reconditioned unit where they did not replace the commutator (and problaby the non-drive end bearing!).

Depending on the alternator, the diode pack can be a separate item to the regulator. They have very different purposes. The diode pack rectifies the alternating current to direct current and the regulator controls the excitation current to the rotor to achieve a steady ~14.4V output for the battery voltage (some are machine sensing and some are battery sensing).

The main difference between dynamo and alternator systems is that with a dynamo, the field magnets, when energised, are constant power so machine output depends on rotational speed, whereas with an alternator the field current can be varied, thus it can give high output at relatively low rotational speeds.

Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sat May 27, 2017 8:25 am

Ther bushes are in order and hardly worn at all, not sticking. As the initial excitation System is obviously not working, one can assume it may be the rectifier. The whole unit is new, i.e. about 3 years old but hardly used and worked ok when first installed. It is of course , a replica Lucas 17

Whilst waiting for the bits, have re-installed the original Dynamo. I swopped this for the alternator because the red light would not go out and the battery was obviously not being charged.

Strangely, the Dynamo passes the "use as a Motor test" and turns well when connected to a 12V battery. Removing the D and F leads and checking the D lead Voltage with the engine running gives about 2,2 V - as it should.

But, connecting the D and F together and running the engine only gives < 1 V !!!!!! ( it should Show up to 12V )

So that is obviously the problem, but what is the cure;and why is it that the Generator happily turns as a Motor even though there is a charging fault????

Wait for the alternator bits to arrive, I suppose? :(
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amgrave
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby amgrave » Sat May 27, 2017 12:31 pm

The fault you think might be the generator might be in the voltage regulator, but that won't affect the alternator though. Alternator's are pretty long lasting and don't give trouble but the diode pack inside can sometimes fail and I suspect this might be the case :cry:


oliver90owner
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby oliver90owner » Sat May 27, 2017 1:13 pm

 can assume it may be the rectifier

Assuming it may be something is OK. One can also assume that it may be the voltage controller or you may assume it is a loose connection or other fault. Likely only one assumption will be correct, unless a cascade failure. It may be a language translation on your part, but I never assume anything until I find a fault or if considering possible different scenarios/outcomes.

Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sat May 27, 2017 5:12 pm

Of cpurse I am confusing the issue a bit because I am having Trouble with both the alternator and the Dynamo. With one, the ignition light will not come on, with the other it will not go out. :(

Alternator first

I have checked and double checked all the wiring for continuity going to and from the alternator. I have also checked that the wire coming from the ignition light has continuity within the alternator itself right up to the brushe(s). When this is directly earthed the ignition warning bulb does light up. Thus I have to assume it is a fixed component that is at fault, either of the two Units mentioned

Dynamo

Same Thing with the wiring. All Connections and lengths check out with an Ohmmeter ok. The Dynamo has been polarised. The Dynamo Output however, using the Lucas check guide seems to Show a fault when the F and D terminals are joined and a voltage reading is taken. I should be getting at least 12 V but actually it is less than one. Thus the voltage regulator is not yet part of the equation. It is also a new unit, although by all accounts that is no guarantee.

I put new brushes into the Dynamo and cleaned up the comminuter and then did about 800km before it failed and the ignition light came on. That was when I decided to install a new Alternator. That has done about 1000km only. I think I will pull the Dynamo apart this evening and see what I may have botched up inside.
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Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sun May 28, 2017 8:42 am

At the risk of boring all und sundry - took the Dynamo apart and cleaned it up - no obvious signs of anything strange. It operated then as a Motor quite well so reinstalled it in the car and now get a good reading of 14V at the Batterie, with a lot of engine revs.

Now to tackle the Voltage reg and cut out - it does not cut out unless manually done but at least the car is drivable.

When People say/write that teh Regulator copies do not work , is it just this cut out mechanism being referred to or the regularor itself?
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myoldjalopy
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby myoldjalopy » Sun May 28, 2017 10:39 am

I don't think its the case that the regulators currently available don't work. Its just they may not last as long as the originals. I had one that barely lasted a year, but the current one has been on my car for two years now and still OK............

Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sun May 28, 2017 1:14 pm

Yes OK, but when you say, and others too, that they do not last, what do you actually mean? They stop working altogether? They burn out? The cut out mechanism (i.e what stops the ignition light staying on as you drive) no longar functions?
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myoldjalopy
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby myoldjalopy » Sun May 28, 2017 4:24 pm

In my case it was the regulator points that burnt out and so the battery wasn't getting charged. But I also had a case where the cut out wasn't working and the ignition light would stay on when the ignition was switched off. But that doesn't mean they are all duff - I have had one last 10 years and yet another last only 12 months or so. If you need one, get one, and clean the contacts of any residue with thinners first. The regulator may continue to work for a long time................only one way to find out!

Nickol
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Nickol » Sun May 28, 2017 5:30 pm

Ok, capito

thanks
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Mike F
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby Mike F » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:03 pm

May I ask another question about ignition warning lights. I have a 1952 MM and whilst doing a refit I broke the Lucas 970 ignition warning light and am having problems sourcing a replacement.
Does anyone know where I can purchase another in the UK?
Thanks
Mike

myoldjalopy
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Re: Ignition warning light

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:12 pm

Try these guys: http://www.lucaselectrical.co.uk/12v-au ... bulbs.html
They claim to have 'every light bulb in almost any car'. I would give them a ring, they should be able to help........


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