LED indicator bulbs

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rreems
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LED indicator bulbs

Postby rreems » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:43 am

Hi
I have a 1968 4 door Moggy
I've just read a post about LED bulbs for semaphores, has anyone replaced their indicator bulbs with LED ones? Where can we get them and would you need to change the flasher unit? If so can someone provide a link?

Kind regards

Richard

palacebear
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby palacebear » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:24 pm

www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com

LED bulbs are a straight swap for conventional ones. Recommended you order amber colour if fitting behind amber lenses as white LEDs may show too pale a yellow to be road-legal.

No change required to flasher unit. Red stop/tail LEDs are good too. Lower power consumption so they reduce the chance of the brake light switch failing.

MAKE SURE you order correct polarity for your car.
1956 4-door called Max

Monty-4
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby Monty-4 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:34 pm

All my lights are LEDs except the halogen headlamps and the speedo warning lights. I had to get a new flasher unit to get LED indicators to function proprely, but I think it could be achieved with resistors instead?

As bear says match the light colour to the lens colour and check the polarity.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

JOWETTJAVELIN
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby JOWETTJAVELIN » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:13 pm

The FL5 unit gives the correct flashing rate at 42w, i.e. two filament bulbs. Changing these for LED might alter this, noted by Monty-4. It would not be cost-effective, and how often do you need to change a bulb? There is also the issue of the lens being designed to diffuse the light of a filament bulb; changing the specification by substituting LED might actually make things worse.

As you see I am sceptical of LEDs. What advantages are claimed for them in this case?
Image

Monty-4
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby Monty-4 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:40 pm

They last a very, very long time, use less power and can be brighter. The well designed LEDs seem to work well with the lenses on the Morris, although finding ones that emit the right intersity of light in the right directions for the speedo and auxillary gauge lights has been a trial (too bright, too white or too dim).

Not sure it's a good idea to retrofit LEDs to headlights yet, none I know of are 'E marked', they may not throw light as far, or don't work properly with the reflectors. They may pass an MOT but it doesn't mean they're perfect for the job... yet!
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

liammonty
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby liammonty » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:31 am

I’d be amazed if the notoriously poor quality modern brake like switches lasted longer with LEDs. The original ones lasted decades with normal bulbs, whereas the new ones last a couple of years at best in my experience.

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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby liammonty » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:12 am

It also seems to be that it isn't legal to retro fit LED bulbs to lights for road use on a car that didn't have them fitted as original equipment. Monty-4's comment re e-marking of headlights is the same as what I have read, but it also applies to the other exterior lights - not just headlights. So be aware, folks - even though it's unlikely you'll ever be pulled over, given that there aren't actually many traffic police about these days, if you are fitting LED bulbs to your Minor, they aren't road legal.

firedrake1942
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby firedrake1942 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:29 pm

Liammonty, where did you get that from? My reading of type approval protocol / provisions and the Construction and Use regs is that if they are fitted and suitable for / approved to a modern vehicle then you can retro fit to a vehicle not originally fitted with them. They have to meet the standards for brightness etc, which I believe most reputable ones do.

palacebear
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby palacebear » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:16 pm

Worth noting maybe, Transport for London's few remaining operational Routemaster buses (the newest being a 1965 vehicle) which still carry fare-paying passengers, have since 2005 had numerous upgrades including improved rear light clusters (removed from c.1985-1990 Metrobuses, Olympians, Volvos etc headed for the breakers yard). More recently these light clusters have been equipped with LED bulbs for all functions except rear fogs which still retain tungsten bulbs. Presumably the DVSAs Freedom From Defect testing, applicable to all buses in passenger service, would attract a 'fail' if this type of retro-fitting was not permitted.
1956 4-door called Max

liammonty
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby liammonty » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:48 am

It's a minefield, due to outdated British legislation (from 1989, when there were no LED bulbs for cars of course) and 'E mark' approval (EU legislation). What is apparent is that, just because LED bulbs are fitted to new cars, one doesn't have carte blanche to install them on older vehicles which would never have had them fitted.

I don't have the time (or the will!) to go through the actual legislation itself (fascinating though I'm sure it is) but there are numerous articles on the internet that I found relatively quickly - read plenty and judge for yourselves what you think. Of course, as always with the web, there is a lot of nonsense written, so you'll need to judge for yourselves what you think is sound! I found this particular one quite useful, as it contains quotes from the DfT in response to questions posed specifically regarding classic cars and retro-fitment of bulbs (see point 6 in the link):

https://www.motoringassist.com/motoring ... r-legally/

In reality, I guess none of this really matters, as the likelihood of anyone being pulled over is so minimal, BUT I think it's good to be aware of the facts. Personally, I don't really see the advantage offered by fitting LEDs anyway, so I personally wouldn't be taking the risk.

Finally, just because Routemasters have LEDs fitted, I wouldn't make the assumption that that means it's legal :wink:

firedrake1942
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Re: LED indicator bulbs

Postby firedrake1942 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Hmmm I think the DFT are being disingenuous ' As LED's are not mentioned ..... they are not permitted' That is a difficult legal concept to uphold. If the LED light sources comply with or are equivalent to the output of the original bulbs, they should be regarded as equivalent and suitable. Nor do I believe that any prosecution would ensue or insurance be invalidated on the grounds of LED light source use.

One area I do agree with however is the optical spread / output pattern issue. I still have sealed beam front headlamps on my car with separate 1957 type sidelights. I would contemplate putting LED's in the side lights at the front and rear (inc brake light) but not in the headlight were I to change these back to originals which took bulbs. The use of LED's in these lights could be dangerous (mainly to other drivers although the area lit by them would also differ from original bulbs) as the light source comes to the lens pattern for diffraction from a different angle (s) than the original bulbs


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