Ignition help

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Miner-Bob
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Ignition help

Postby Miner-Bob » Tue May 14, 2019 10:33 pm

Recently purchased a moggy for a project. It is a 1956 split screen, but doesn’t run, have basically changed the whole ignition system, however still no life. I have noticed that the coil is getting warm, is this normal. If there’s any help that someone can suggest that would be great. Points seem to be good and go set. Had a new distributer cap with plugs and also condenser and new rotor arm.

beero
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Re: Ignition help

Postby beero » Tue May 14, 2019 11:18 pm

Welcome, I see this is your first post. Are you familiar with points or is this the first set you have fitted? Have you checked the ht leads are in the right position? If you fitted in the same order as you took them off what is to say that is the correct order if the car was not running beforehand. Sorry if you are an old hand at classic cars, don't mean to offend you if you are.


oliver90owner
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Re: Ignition help

Postby oliver90owner » Tue May 14, 2019 11:33 pm

Unless there was no spark, why did you change the whole ignition system? Even then, there is usually only one underlying fault at any one time. Is there a healthy spark now?

Is there fuel? Is there the correct fuel to air ratio? Is there good compression?

An engine requires air/fuel in the right proportions, compression and a good spark at the right time. If any one of these is missing the engine will not run.

Ignition system checks should be systematic. Let us know a what stage you are at. What have you checked? Power to the coil? (Not just voltage), contacts interrupting the current, condenser working as it should, spark at king lead, spark at plugs.

simmitc
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Re: Ignition help

Postby simmitc » Wed May 15, 2019 10:17 am

Is the fuel pump working - test by removing pipe from carb and discharging into a suitable container (observe safety precautions). You should get at least a pint in one minute.

Have you checked for a spark from the king lead? If OK, then proceed to check spark from other leads.

Check points gap and timing - feel for compression on No. 1 cylinder (nearest radiator). With that at TDC, look at rotar arm and see to which terminal on the cap the arm is pointing. The lead from that terminal should go to No. 1. Work anti-clockwise 1-3-4-2.

Check compression on all four cylinders.

Do you know when it last ran and what's been done since?

Miner-Bob
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Re: Ignition help

Postby Miner-Bob » Thu May 16, 2019 5:13 pm

Hey,
No offence at all, not worked on a car this old for the last 40 years. Car was purchased as a non runner and when we first stopped it out it was all gunk and a good clean was not enough.

Fuel pump has been salvaged and works. Still struggling with the spark. Have found a useful video tube in setting the points so I believe that is all correct. Replaced the coil and it gets warm should that happen?

Will keep you all in the loop.
Thanks for all your help. I’m going to need it.

simmitc
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Re: Ignition help

Postby simmitc » Thu May 16, 2019 9:16 pm

If the points are closed with the ignition on, then the coil will get warm. If the points are open then the coil should not get warm.

With a bit more of the background we can see that you really need to start from scratch, and a full service is a good place to start.

You know that the fuel pump is OK. Hopefully the fuel is new, or it probably won't work. You could also check that the needle valve works and that jet is clean, but it sounds like ignition may be your issue.

Check the valver clearances and that you have good compression on all four pots.

Returning to the ignition, do you have a multimeter as that would make testing easier: Disconnect the wire from the coil to the dizzy. Use the meter to check that with the points closed there is continuity from the wire to earth, and with the points open, that there is no connection. If the coil is getting warm then you clearly have power to it, but you could check that it is 12v and not a lower figure cuased by high resistance.

Once the above is all OK then with the points gap set to 15 thou you should be able to get a spark from the king lead - set the end about 1/4 from the block and watch for a spark.

Report back with results for further advice.

beero
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Re: Ignition help

Postby beero » Thu May 16, 2019 10:35 pm

Was the points video on how to set them or how to change them. A common problem with points if you haven't fitted them before is not getting the wire and insulator in the correct order. Fit one half of the insulator, then the points spring, then the two wires, then the second part of the insulator, then the washer and nut. This ensures that the washers attached to the wires only touch the spring and not the post that everything fits onto. Again, sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs.
Attachments
Points.png
Points.png (251.8 KiB) Viewed 1028 times


Miner-Bob
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Re: Ignition help

Postby Miner-Bob » Thu May 16, 2019 11:17 pm

Thanks gays will do and let you know what happens

IslipMinor
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Re: Ignition help

Postby IslipMinor » Sat May 18, 2019 9:52 am

Miner-Bob,

The picture of the Lucas points shows how easy it is to have the very common problem of connecting the wire from the coil directly to 'earth/ground', instead of to the points, and then twice per engine revolution to ground, via the points. Can anyone who has worked on points-based ignition systems over the years honestly say they have NEVER done that? Mmm!

Where do you live? There is likely someone living close (enough) to you to help.
Richard



Murrayminor
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Re: Ignition help

Postby Murrayminor » Sat May 18, 2019 11:22 am

Where are you located?
Maybe there is someone close who could assist.
If you are close to me I could come have a look.
Proud owner of my first Morris Minor

Chipper
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Re: Ignition help

Postby Chipper » Sat May 18, 2019 4:52 pm

Miner-Bob wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:17 pm
Thanks gays will do and let you know what happens
Was that a Freudian slip? :lol:
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

Miner-Bob
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Re: Ignition help

Postby Miner-Bob » Mon May 20, 2019 3:55 pm

Hi I live in new Addington Croydon Surrey out of action at the moment as I have done my back in

kennatt
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Re: Ignition help

Postby kennatt » Tue May 21, 2019 9:53 am

Never got the point connection wrong ONCE in my life................................................................... be about ten times over the last 50 years :D

oliver90owner
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Re: Ignition help

Postby oliver90owner » Wed May 22, 2019 8:24 am

kennatt wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:53 am
Never got the point connection wrong ONCE in my life................................................................... be about ten times over the last 50 years :D
I’ve worked on contact point systems literally hundreds of times (perhaps over a thousand? I could not claim to have got the fiddly connections, on all, correct at every first attempt. But it does not take long to see the mistake visually, before final tightening of connections. These include cars, motorcycles, lawn mowers, cultivators, pumps, generators, tractors and a wide range of stationary motive power.

I expect, that if I counted all the unused magnetos knocking around, there might be as many as a dozen sets. When put into use, not only do magnetos require checking over, but also some installations need the impulse coupling to be reversed and internal parts resetting for the magneto to operate in the opposite rotation. Kettering ignition systems are far simpler to check out.

myoldjalopy
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Re: Ignition help

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed May 22, 2019 8:38 am

Another thing that can cause problems with setting points is that, if you are not careful, the feeler guage can go in the gap at a slight angle, causing the gap to be too big. You also have to be careful that the 'heel' of the points resting on the distributor cam really is dead centre on the 'lobe' of the cam.

Miner-Bob
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Re: Ignition help

Postby Miner-Bob » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:49 pm

Massive thank you to everyone, finally got her firing and running yesterday, shame theirs a hole in the fuel tank.

IslipMinor
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Re: Ignition help

Postby IslipMinor » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:28 pm

What did you need to do to get it running?
Richard



Miner-Bob
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Re: Ignition help

Postby Miner-Bob » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:07 pm

Hi
Had to connect points correctly so it didn’t go to ground then fill the float chamber with petrol and it started as I said earlier thanks for all your help


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