1960/61 convertible front side lights

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dennissutera
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1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby dennissutera » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:45 am

Can any member please advise if I can & how to proceed in modifying the front side lights which display a white light to flashing units, preferably amber, but still retain the white light? Additionally, is it then possible to fit an aftermarket "Hazard Warning Light Kit", so that in the event of an emergency I can switch this on? Regards & thanks in advance.

geoberni
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby geoberni » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:42 pm

There's lots of options, it just depends how capable you are at auto electrics.

For example, when I brought Basil, his 1955 standard of Trafficators with White sidelights to the front had been altered to use the wiring harness that had flashing White/Red sidelights using the Big Lucas DB10 Relay, but with other changes to provide side lights in the headlamp and separate amber indicators.
Something you'll see on perhaps the majority of pre- 63 Minors.

What wiring standards have you actually got at the moment? Otherwise we could be going through lots of irrelevant options here.

Is it a standard set-up as per a recognised diagram in the manual?
or has it been altered?
Do you have Trafficators or Indicators at present?


Oh, and yes you can fit an after market Hazard Unit , I have.
Basil the 1955 series II

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firedrake1942
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby firedrake1942 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:02 pm

Not sure you can if they are the Lucas L 489 sidelights which is why many series3 cars had aftermarket indicator lights fitted in a variety of places both front and rear. You could of course put the much later front and rear cluster lights on or use the transitional and only slightly larger L 488 which for several years enabled both indicator and sidelight to work through the sidelights at front and brake light at rear. This needed a large relay under the bonnet. This sight illustrates the differences http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/ID/Lights.htm

How they are wired is a mystery to me as are most car electrics

geoberni
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby geoberni » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:58 pm

firedrake1942 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:02 pm

How they are wired is a mystery to me as are most car electrics
Which is why I asked what the current configuration is and why I said "depends how capable you are at auto electrics."
It would obviously require some work, including new fittings, but options include
A) Changing headlights to include sidelight, thus allowing sidelight to become indicator.
B) Modifying the sidelight into a dual contact unit. CW do a kit for it, but very pricey.https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/57 ... mp-led-kit
At a better price, Classic Dynamo Regulators sell the lamps.http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.c ... s-shop.php

The OP never mentioned what the rear lighting layout was, specifically asking about the front.


Basil has the latter fit of L488s rather than the L489s. (always seems back to front that, having the higher number on the earlier cars). :-?
Last edited by geoberni on Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Basil the 1955 series II

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myoldjalopy
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby myoldjalopy » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:01 pm

'firedrake1942': You could of course put the much later front and rear cluster lights on
Oooh, don't fit the later, bulky 1098 lamp clusters! Plenty have done so but they just look plain wrong and ugly on the earlier cars IMO :-?

dennissutera
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby dennissutera » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:44 pm

May I thank members for their useful replies & answer some of their questions. I've not owned the car for long & I'm still exploring & uncovering things. It has an alternator & a negative earth. I believe that the side lights are L489 type with clear "beehive" glass lenses. The low position working trafficators are the later ones. The rear lights have an all red plastic lense, no chrome & are similar to type L549. Looking through the wiring diagrams in the Workshop Manual, but I need to confirm against the actual wiring, it's similar to that shown on page N.25. I'm not electrically minded, but willing to learn in the hope that I don't make matters worse!

Since my initial post I've found that Better Car Lighting provide a "Compact high-power LED dual-colour orange/warm white bulb to make white front flashers brighter & safer;" they also provide an "High tech LED bulb that's a red tail brake light which turns orange when you indicate". Have any members used either of these & what are their views, as it's a possible future option?

Regards & thank you in anticipation-Dennis Sutera

geoberni
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby geoberni » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:16 pm

Hi Dennis
dennissutera wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:44 pm
"High tech LED bulb that's a red tail brake light which turns orange when you indicate".
Ummm... I can't see that being too great unless behind a clear lens... :-? Because of the way that LEDs work regarding the wavelengths of light and technical stuff like that, then to get a decent Red light from behind a red lens, you need to use a red LED, not a white one. So I'd have thought that an Orange LED would still be essentially Red. :-? :-?

But back to your car, if you have L489s, then they are a small (torch like) Ba9s bulb rather than what might be regarded a 'normal' size car bulb.
But it wouldn't cost much to put L488 style in and then you could double up the function.
Without the DB10 relay however, you're a bit stuck for getting indicators art the rear, unless you want to fit additional amber lights, as it's the DB10 that allows the brakes lights to double up as indicators.

But it's all doable, perhaps there's someone at your local branch who can take you through it? I noted in one of your earlier posts that you've been to branch meetings.

I've been exploring LED options myself, you'll see one of my videos linked from here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=70954&p=647132#p647128
Basil the 1955 series II

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dennissutera
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby dennissutera » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:41 am

Good morning & thank you for your advice. Since my initial posting I've been to the garage that's currently doing some work on my moggie & checked things so I can properly answer some of yours & other members questions as follows. My front side lights are type L488, apologies for incorrectly advising a different type, the rear are type L549. A flasher unit & DB10 relay has also been fitted. I've also read the threads on LED lighting & viewed some of the potential suppliers websites. Furthermore, as the garage does MOTs & the owner has owned several moggies in the past I inquired if in his opinion fitting Better Car Lighting compact high-powered dual-coloured orange/warm white bulbs will result in any problems with passing the MOT, he replied no. I don't know if my "beehive" glass lens can be changed for a non-patterned type, perhaps members can advise? Meanwhile, I'm trying to establish if the new LED bulbs will fit into my existing set-up, again any members who have tried these please advise? I'm also searching the web to see if other suppliers do a similar bulb to Better Car Lighting, again if other members know, please advise? I'm at my local MMOC branch tonight & will raise the above with more learned members. Finally thanks in advance for any constructive replies.

geoberni
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby geoberni » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:41 pm

OK, so your set up is quite similar to mine.
Is the set up of the rear lights still with the DB10 flashing the brake light for the indicator, or have separate indicators lights been fitted?

I'd be interested in seeing one of these "Better Car Lighting compact high-powered dual-coloured orange/warm white bulbs" working behind a red lens... :-?
Basil the 1955 series II

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dennissutera
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby dennissutera » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 pm

I believe that separate indicator lights have not been fitted. Until I've finished the upgrade on the front side lights, I'm reluctant to proceed with the rear lights, but if/when I do I will update members.
Meanwhile I note that members haven't yet commented whether clear lens are available to replace the "beehive" type front side lights, be they original Morris Minor or other BMC models eg Mini, or what?
I'm also exploring fitting other LED's elsewhere eg headlamps, etc., any thoughts?

myoldjalopy
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby myoldjalopy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:09 am

dennissutera wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 pm
Meanwhile I note that members haven't yet commented whether clear lens are available to replace the "beehive" type front side lights, be they original Morris Minor or other BMC models eg Mini, or what?
Looky here:https://www.morrisminorspares.com/elect ... s-p1238534
(although the glass is 'patterned' - not sure if you meant completely smooth glass? )

geoberni
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby geoberni » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:12 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:09 am
dennissutera wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 pm
Meanwhile I note that members haven't yet commented whether clear lens are available to replace the "beehive" type front side lights, be they original Morris Minor or other BMC models eg Mini, or what?
Looky here:https://www.morrisminorspares.com/elect ... s-p1238534
(although the glass is 'patterned' - not sure if you meant completely smooth glass? )
I'm a little confused by this Lens aspect. :-?
The car has L488s, presumably with clear lens, being used for sidelights/indicators as there is a DB10 system fitted.
The 488 will take beehive or flat lensed, clear or amber.

if intending to change to dual function lamps, then the appropriate lamp holder will need fitting, something like this:
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/57 ... n-filament
That should allow for a flat clear lens to be fitted, but it needs to be established what base the "Better Car Lighting compact high-powered dual-coloured orange/warm white bulbs" are, whether the locating pins are offset or the same level.

I think some photos of the car lights are required. This long distance, working blind stuff is very tiring...... :wink:
Basil the 1955 series II

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dennissutera
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby dennissutera » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:59 pm

Thank you for your comments, my car is still in the garage having work done (not related to the side light), however, as previously stated the lens is of the "beehive" type with the "swirls" in the lens, which I also "think" is opaque. I don't know what bulbs are currently fitted, or the type of holder & what the distance is between the holder to the inside of the lens. I hope that the garage work will be complete in another week & then I will investigate further & be able to take some pics to attach to future posts. Regards, Dennis

geoberni
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Re: 1960/61 convertible front side lights

Postby geoberni » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:26 pm

Hi Dennis
The L488 style will accept flat or beehive covers:
20200117_140015.jpg
20200117_140015.jpg (3.49 MiB) Viewed 548 times
Not just Clear and Amber (these just happen to the spares I have), but also Red.

The big question at the moment is over the type of lamp holder in the fitting, whether the thing is for a single filament or double filament lamp.

What's confusing me in the whole topic is that your first post was
modifying the front side lights which display a white light to flashing units, preferably amber, but still retain the white light?
but then on Tuesday you said
A flasher unit & DB10 relay has also been fitted.
If you car has been wired to the genuine DB10 Relay system of '61-'63, then the front light units should be indicator/side light double filament lamp holders. No reason a straight swap of lamp shouldn't work and you can put your Amber/White LED in there. A good chance the LED will simply be 'white' when not lit, so the clear lens won't be an issue.

My Basil had Amber Lens in the front lights since the sidelights have been incorporated into the headlights; I just put amber LEDs in and changed the lenses for clear.

Your problem is going to come in what you want from the rear lights......
Basil the 1955 series II

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