MAin Beam Dip Switch

[Deaconbrody]

Hi Guys,

In 2005 BMC made a comment on a post regarding relocating the Main beam switch to a flip switch, I assume somewhere around the dashboard;

I quote; One option is to rewire the dip beam so it always comes on with the headlamp switch. Then you just need a flip switch to bring on main beam when you want it - in addition to the dip beam. Much better lighting too!

Does anyone have a wiring diagram or instructions on how best to do this mod?

Ian

[geoberni]

A lighting configuration that is fairly common on modern cars with the '4 lamp' layout.
In terms of lighting effect, no different from having spotlights on a separate switch.

However, I would have concerns about the Full and Dip both being on at the same time leading to premature lamp failure.
With a conventional Lamp, or a Halogen Lamp, you're asking the glass case to accept the heat of both filaments being powered when I'm not sure they are designed for that in regular use.
Even LED Lamps have a heat dissipation aspect, so having both sets of LEDS powered might cause excess heating on them too.

It's an easy enough thing to wire up for anyone with basic electrical knowledge, I'm just not convinced it's a good idea.
There is also the consideration of the current rating of the Earth connection for the headlamp, it might need a thicker cable as you're now asking it to take both filaments at the same time.

I certainly wouldn't try it with just a dynamo and filament lamps as it wouldn't cope.

The actual circuit would depend on the year of the car and the digram it's wired to at the moment.

[Deaconbrody]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I have a convertible with a Marina 1300 engine fitted and an alternator. I was thinking it was just a matter of removing the floor switch and extending the wires to the dashboard somewhere fitting a toggle switch. When the lights are on flicking the switch brought on the main beam and then flicking back went back to dimmed. Not as easy as that. Can anyone explain why this would not work? Thanks Ian.

[Deaconbrody]

Sorry, the car is a 1970 model Minor

[simmitc]

geoberni has just explained why it's not a good idea. In strict electrical circuit terms, your idea will work, BUT the standard bulb is 60W main beam and 55W dip beam, If you illuminate both at the same time then that is 115W, and the light unit (both bowl and bulb) is not designed to dissipate that amount of heat on a permanent basis. Also consider that with both headlamps on, that is 230W, and at 12v that means 19 amps - check that your charging and wiring are up to the job.

Remember also that for legal road use, you cannot exceed 60W for main beam - there's probably a modern and more accurate lumen measurement, but I haven't looked that up, just referring to the older Construction and Use Regulations.

Some years ago, I saw what I thought was a brilliant (pun intended) liigthing setup: A lowlight front panel with the old headlamps (uprated to halogens) for dip beams plus the later highlight wings with those lights used for main beam, but keeping the lower dip beams on at the same time.

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

If you simply want a headlamp flasher it is easy to wire in a spring-loaded flasher switch. This retains the foot dimmer and does not disturb the existing wiring.

[Sleeper]

I fitted an ( edit ) three position toggle switch on my dash , centre off , spring loaded in the down position , On in the up position , to the main beam, works a treat , quick down press to flash oncoming traffic or upwards to put main beam on , no need to have main and dip on at the same time.

Just tee the feed from the lighting switch , through the toggle switch , then to the main beam wire.

John ;-)

[oliver90owner]

Checkout the wiring arrangement for modern vehicles? I expect there are relays concerned, but all modern vehicles light up with dip beam, on selecting the headlamps by the normal on-off switch.

Main beam flash is usually separate - but Peugeot and Citroen vehicles at least used to be able to select both beams at the moment of change-over. Mine does. Handy to remind distant on-coming traffic to dip their beams, at times.

[Deaconbrody]

Thanks guys,

I like Johns idea. I have a one position spring back toggle switch on my dashboard that was fitted when I bought the car. This flashes the main beam.

It would just mean changing this switch to a two position toggle switch as John is suggesting down for flash and up for main beam and away we go. Excellent, will get onto e-bay and buy a switch and as the wiring is already existing it should be an easy job. Thanks again, Ian

[geoberni]

It would be a good idea if you confirmed what you are actually wanting to do.
You started of with saying

I quote; One option is to rewire the dip beam so it always comes on with the headlamp switch. Then you just need a flip switch to bring on main beam when you want it - in addition to the dip beam. Much better lighting too!

...but then change to say

I was thinking it was just a matter of removing the floor switch and extending the wires to the dashboard somewhere fitting a toggle switch. When the lights are on flicking the switch brought on the main beam and then flicking back went back to dimmed. Not as easy as that. Can anyone explain why this would not work? Thanks Ian.

So are you wanting just a 'headlamp flash' or having Dip beam on continually even when you have switched to Full beam?
Because your Posts are indicating 2 entirely different requests.

I have no idea if a 1970 Minor already has a Headlamp Flash or not.

[Deaconbrody]

Hi Geo, You are quite right all a bit messy!

I think I am upsetting a few people, Sorry.

Actually I was quoting Roy, (bmcecosse) who I have learnt a lot from in his posts. He posted an old post on the subject.

(Roy's post in 2005) I quoted his post not my quote, as follows; One option is to rewire the dip beam so it always comes on with the headlamp switch. Then you just need a flip switch to bring on main beam when you want it - in addition to the dip beam. Much better lighting too!

Yours and everybody's information has been very helpful. I have studied the wiring diagram and now see where you are coming from regarding the switch system putting on both Full and Dipped beams at the same time which the floor switch does not, perhaps overheating or overloading the system.

I am on a learning curve and every bit of knowledge is interesting.

Again sorry for any confusion caused, it was not my intention,

Ian

[geoberni]

Hi
I know you were quoting Roy, and they may be what has caused the confusion, quoting something that you appear not to actually want...

bring on main beam when you want it - in addition to the dip beam. Much better lighting too!

...implies having Full Beam supplemented with Dip at the same time, a common configuration on many Moderns.

You're not upsetting people, certainly as far as I'm concerned, but you frustrating them by not making it clear what you want to do.
My Minor is a SII, '55, and I know that wiring but I have no desire to fully understand 1000 wiring.
From a brief look at the diagrams, it seems to me that no Minor model has a Headlamp Flash.

Even now you haven't clearly stated your aim, although I'm guessing you only want a Flash capability.

If so, that's an easy thing to do and the momentary increase in current shouldn't cause a problem if your wiring is in good condition. Although I would make sure your connections, especially the headlamp Earth on each inner wing, are very good, well under 0.5 ohm each on a basic multimeter.

[simmitc]

Likewise, I'm not upset, and I'm sure that nobody else is either, we're all just trying to offer the best advice to help you achieve your aim, but we can't quite work out what it is Have you thoght about a column mounted combined dip/flash/horn/indicator switch? There have been plenty of those fitted over the years...

It's really a question of whether you are trying to change the switch or improve the lights? If the former, then you can have pretty well anything that works for you, if the latter then check what you have at the moment - sealed beam or halogen, and work from there, bearing in mind that it must be road legal to use the car on the public highway.

[simmitc]

Just a quick explanation of how dipping works, and apologies if teaching grnadmother to suck eggs.

Look at a headlamp bulb or a sealed beam unit and you will see that there are two separate filaments. When on main beam, the current flows through one filament, when on dip, then through the other. The dip switch is a simple change-over that toggles between the two filaments; the dashboard lighting switch controls whether there is power to change between the two filaments. Light emitted from either filament strikes the reflector and is then directed forwards out of the lamp. Because the filaments are in different places, the light is reflected in different directions/patterns - think back to school day physics and "angle of incidence = angle of reflection", and that will give the general idea; plus the glass lens will focus light ahead. Different light units will have different beam characteristics, and different bulbs will have varying light output and light colour. What is "best" for on person may not be best for another. Modern LED units bring in even more options. Hope that helps.

[Deaconbrody]

Thanks everyone for your advice and input. I have a lot to think about and study up on. I have my wiring diagrams out and will put all the information learnt to good use.

All the best,

Ian

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

My own preference for serious night driving is a spot lamp, which gives a long-range pencil beam. But even the standard headlamps are fine if the reflectors are in good condition, with a 414 bulb they are adequate for fast driving when I'm in Snowdonia. Never bothered with halogen conversions, and I suspect many doing this and fitting alternators never do more than a few hundred miles a year.

[Deaconbrody]

Hi, Thanks for the information. I live in Scotland in Lochgoilhead and my long drives are mostly between Lochgoilhead and Dunoon, 35 miles each way. All the roads are either single track or country roads so no street lights. Good lights do help. Biggest problem I find is when I have to reverse the Morris Minor on the single track roads. I have round door mirrors that are not great and I seem to go all over the place when reversing. Bought a screw on rectangular door mirror from ESM and it has helped. I have hazard warning lights fitted and find these help when reversing on pitch black roads. Oh the joys of running a classic car. Ian